Yeah, just waiting to hear who goes back. ML ready OF and pitcher. So maybe I won't like it so much.

tkihshbt wrote:

It's Kelly and Craig.

WOOOOOOWWWW

That's way, way too much.
 

I can't begin to tell you how much I hate this trade.

It is Kelly and Craig. I'm not against it 100%. Craig has just never really gotten it together this season. No average, no power, no RBI's... I have no idea what's the matter with him, but he hasn't been right at all this season.

Kelly. I don't like that part of it much, but I'm sure Boston wasn't going to give us Lackey just for Craig straight up...

Jesus though.... Boston gave Lester and Lackey away in the same day..... 

I wont mkss the 2014 version of kelly and craig one fucking bit.  It is just hard to believe there wasnt more to them then this. 

Waino
Lynn
Lackey
Materson
Miller

That isnt to shabby.

AP I'd like it more with Wacha's name in there somewhere, but it's workable.

I'd assume you're correct there... Course with the Cardinals, it always starts with "minor discomfort" and ends with a pitcher being gone for 18 months....

What if that guy is Einar Diaz against right-handed pitchers and has a terrible contract that the Cardinals have one chance to get out of? If Craig were hitting into bad luck, I think the Cardinals would've been more hesitant to trade him. But you don't ground out softly to third base for four months if you're just slumping. That's symptomatic of a larger issue.
 

Cards also get minor league left-hander Corey Littrell, a 2013 draft pick, and $1.75 million, if that's any consolation, Artie.

Had to do a double-take; at first I read it as a draft pick in addition to Littrell and the $$ but then I noticed the year...

Last edited by JV (7/31/2014 12:43 pm)

Kelly is still working his way back from a hamstring injury, but let's not forget he was 9-3 with a 2.25 ERA last year as a starter.
People are tending to refer to Craig as if he just dropped onto the planet on April 1 and has sucked his whole life. Are 2011-13 the outlier, or should we go by the last four months? 
Moz panicked. That's all this is. In the past 24 hours, he's acquired a guy with an ERA over 5.00 in the worst division in baseball, and traded a middle of the rotation pitcher and his opening day cleanup hitter for a 2-month rental who has a history of being a lousy teammate.
 

Last edited by artie_fufkin (7/31/2014 1:46 pm)

tkihshbt wrote:

We'll have to agree to disagree. Craig's been beat up the last three seasons. His Lisfranc injury was 11 months ago and he's not getting any better; he's actually gotten worse as the season progressed. I don't think this is an outlier, nor do I think 11-13 was an outlier. It's just a matter of someone with a history of injuries physically deteriorating in front of us. The same with David Freese.

Personally, I agree with TK.  I wish Craig well, and hope he proves me wrong, but I think what we're seeing now is pretty indicative of what Boston is getting.  He reminds me of McGwire and Rolen, both of whom suddenly became very vulnerable to pitches in on their hands and whose performance offensively dropped rather rapidly.

For me, the key to this deal is whether Lackey pitches in 2015.  It's a no-brainer that the Cardinals pick up his option for $500K, but it's always possible that Lackey could hold out for an extension or simply refuse to pitch for $500K and retire.  

Artie, you've always been a fan of Kelly, probably moreso than anyone on this board.  The unfortunate reality for him is that in the organization's eyes, assuming the availability of everyone, Kelly wasn't among their top 5 pitchers.  That made him expendable.