"Oh, and by the way, if you want to save money, they're selling single serving bottles of wine in the newer 1.5 L size."

I was going to ask if this particular brand comes with a screw off top, but apparently the screw top no longer carries the stigma of lesser quality. My wife informs me there's a shortage of cork these days. There's a Sammy Sosa joke in there somewhere, but I'll leave it to Windy to provide the punch line.

Last edited by artie_fufkin (12/14/2010 9:15 am)

Mags wrote:

And here's Gordon's take, which I like as far as it goes:

I saw the title to that piece and thought it would be another paid advertisement like the gift he gace Luhnow a few days ago, but this time for La Russa (linking La Russa to Whitey in the headline, no less).  But I was pleasantly surprised, and agree with you.  Like you, I think it's not quite fair to expect him to deliver success just because he was given the players he wanted, considering that he is a realist who wasn't going to put his foot down and demand Cliff Lee and Carl Crawford, as much as those two guys might have helped us.

"Credit the Australians for showing the French just how full of shit they are."

The judges also would also have accepted "Algerians," "Congolese," "Vietnamese," "Thai," "Germans, "Russians," "British," ... hell, this list is practically endless, but it probably concludes with "Julius Caesar."

Speaking to Tim McKernan on KFNS radio, Cardinals pitcher Kyle Lohse explained why departed shortstop Brendan Ryan was an issue in the team clubhouse. "I like Brendan, and I think a lot of guys wanted him to do well," Lohse said. "We all tried to help him out and tried to help him understand what being a professional was ... but I honestly think that when things aren't going so good, and you're still kind of the way he is … when you're still kind of forgetting to do the things you're supposed to, it starts to wear on you. He by no way is any reason why we didn't take the NL Central — but, I think just one little distraction that kind of rubbed some people the wrong way and it's just one of those things that doesn't help a team out. Brendan Ryan is who he is, and he's going to continue being that guy and personally I like him. I just don't think he's ever going to change and the inability to get serious about things kind of makes people really tired of you."

http://www.stltoday.com/sports/columns/bernie-miklasz/article_790292be-a719-5a71-9011-65f3852689af.html

I dont disagree that Ryan had to go but it is a damn shame.

artie_fufkin wrote:

Goodness gracious. You'd think after the way he's pitched the last two years, Kyle Lohse would keep his mouth shut and try not to draw any attention to himself.

In the years he's been a Cardinal I don't recall him saying much of anything at all, so I find it kind of coureageous for him to speak out about this now.  It looks like leadership to me.

The problem here is that the fans are pissed and the only evidence of his problem is one long stare from Carpenter, and maybe a short stare from Pujols, on top of some La Russa-like behavior from la Russa.  So, Lohse stands up and says, 'there really was something to it, and if you want to get specific, it was his continued insouciance, even while we were falling apart in a playoff drive.'  Good for him.  I think I understand the Ryan issue better.

Last edited by Max (12/18/2010 5:43 pm)

"It looks like leadership to me."

Leadership earned by guys who throw eight innings of shutout ball in a World Series game, or hit a home run in the seventh game of the NLCS, or post Triple Crown numbers year after year after year. It certainly isn't coughing up eight runs to the Washington Nationals when your team is faltering in a pennant race.

Fors, just a question but dont you think that the team takes some blame for the seperation between the younger and older players.  I could see how a good having a good season at triple A feels like it is a meaningless effort went Miles gets a contract instead of him a promotion.

I guess our opinion is different then.  I would think seeing guys signed instead of a player promoted would have alot of effect on the moral.  I know it would make me bitter to see someone hired ahead of me if I thought I should have got the promotion. 

I think it adds to the long standing idea that TLR cant and wont manage young players.  That he needs an index card of past major league stats to tell him how to manage.

APRTW wrote:

I guess our opinion is different then.  I would think seeing guys signed instead of a player promoted would have alot of effect on the moral.  I know it would make me bitter to see someone hired ahead of me if I thought I should have got the promotion. 

I think it adds to the long standing idea that TLR cant and wont manage young players.  That he needs an index card of past major league stats to tell him how to manage.

I am with you, AP.  I am sure there is a whole literature on the differences between companies that promote from within and those that cross hire, and the same must be true to some extent in baseball, too. 

For example, in academia, Harvard and other top Ivy League schools used to be infamous for not promoting their junior faculty.  Getting a job as Assistant Professor at Harvard or Yale was a virtual guarantee of getting fired after 6 years, and that had a big impact on the relationship between junior faculty and senior faculty at those schools compared with the same relationships at other schools where promotion from within was far more likely.  As an interesting epilogue, Harvard and the other schools that used to do this all changed their policies about 10-20 years ago, which is an implicit admission that the system had negative consequences that outweighed the advantages, IMO

For the lawyers, it would be analogous to a top law firm that has a well-earned reputation for not making partners of any of their associates, ever.

Last edited by Max (12/19/2010 3:18 pm)

APRTW wrote:

The glory of being a major leaguer is one thing.  When you start talking abou the difference in money a guy can make by being promoted you reach another angle.  I would like to know what Anderson will make being in triple A vs on the big league roster.  I am sure it is enough to be bitter over.

Bitter at who?  Himself for not learning how to be a major league caliber defensive catcher?  Himself for not being bright enough to understand how to implement the gameplan they expect the catcher's to use? 

The day after Laird was signed, Strauss posted a tweet that the same people complaining about the Ryan trade would probably start complaining that the team signed a quality defensive catcher rather than a "prospect with 0 trade value.". I thought Strauss was crazy. Little did I know.

forsberg_us wrote:

APRTW wrote:

The glory of being a major leaguer is one thing.  When you start talking abou the difference in money a guy can make by being promoted you reach another angle.  I would like to know what Anderson will make being in triple A vs on the big league roster.  I am sure it is enough to be bitter over.

Bitter at who?  Himself for not learning how to be a major league caliber defensive catcher?  Himself for not being bright enough to understand how to implement the gameplan they expect the catcher's to use? 

The day after Laird was signed, Strauss posted a tweet that the same people complaining about the Ryan trade would probably start complaining that the team signed a quality defensive catcher rather than a "prospect with 0 trade value.". I thought Strauss was crazy. Little did I know.

Bitter that an offensive and defensive minded catcher were in the Cardinals system but were passed up because they had not grew there first grey hair.  I didnt complain about the Ryan trade and have no clue what Anderson's trade value has to do with not promoting him or keeping Pagz on the roster.

I dont understand how you can take a stance that TLR doesnt promote signing veteran players over promoting from within.  I dont understand how you could think that doing that wouldnt cause the younger players to feel bitter.  The dirrection the team publicly said they were shifting to was developing players.  Wasnt the Marty Mason deal because he wasnt playing nice with the minors and promoting the triple A pitching coach suposed to smooth things over?  You act like my angle of viewing the situation is off the deep end even though the club dysfunction has been made public.  It was even made public by a pro cardinals media outlet.  Hell the Post website still has a story titled " Tony, like Whitey, prefers old-school players" on its front page.  I am just not putting the happy gushy Cardinal patting on the back media spin on it.  I know you support the current manager and coaching staff.  I have said many times that I think we will suffer when TLR leaves.  He will be hard to replace.  However I think your loyality is clouding the thought of the issues that could be in play.  Or even the chance that they are there.  You have an inside tract to know what is going on and I do not.  I am only speculating.

Let me ask you this AP--does your theory about internal players being held down take into consideration that last years Opening Day roster had 15 of 25 players who played their first major league game as a Cardinal for Larussa?  How many rookies made their major league debut last season?

I also seem to remeber they tried Ottavino, Walters and Hawksworth when the rotation imploded. Should Walters and Ottavino be bitter that the team re-signed Westbrook?