http://www.vivaelbirdos.com/2014/11/17/7233581/breaking-st-louis-cardinals-trade-shelby-miller-tyrell-jenkins-to

I'm okay with this. I figured it would take something to get him, but that's not "too" much I don't think.

He's a reliever with a sub-3 ERA I like guys like that!

Shame to see Miller go, always felt like he had another gear that he just never really got to. But this is a good move for the Cardinals.

Russell Martin to the Blue Jays, leaving the Pirates with ...

http://www.cbssports.com/mlb/writer/jon-heyman/24817144/russell-martin-martin-is-signing-with-blue-jays-on-five-year-deal

tkihshbt wrote:

I'm iffy on the trade. Obviously I'm a big Miller fan, so it sucks to see him go. I'm also a huge Heyward fan and two-thirds of the outfield defense is going to be exceptional, especially when Peter Bourjos is out there.

However, Heyward isn't anyone's idea of a power hitter. At best the Cardinals probably added a 15-20 homer guy when they needed 25-30. They're also ridiculously lopsided against lefties. A run saved is as good as a run earned, but it seems like they're basically throwing their hands up and saying "we don't have the chips to get a power hitter, we don't trust Tulowitzki's health, so we'll just double down on speed and defense." It's not a bad play. The Royals went to the World Series with it. But it also means another year of sweating out 2-1, 3-2 games.

You tend to follow the prospects as well as anyone. What's your take on Jenkins?
 

I like this trade.  I think the cards had to get a bat.  A 15 to 20 hr guy is better then grichick is going to be.  It is an improvement.  I know they lost 2 good players and I think the braves did well.  However the cardinals are going to have to give something to get something.  If they believe in their system like they claim then miller will not be hard to replace.  As alz said, he seemèd to have another gear he never got to.  That is a polite way of saying he is under preforming.  Hopefully a reasonable extension can be worked out.  If not, oh well.  A team has to do something to win now once in awhile.  Now they need a right handed power bat to platoon.

APIAD wrote:

I like this trade. I think the cards had to get a bat. A 15 to 20 hr guy is better then grichick is going to be. It is an improvement.

Yeah, they are better than they were in October, but Heyward moves them closer to the 2013 Cardinals. That was a good offense, but it also relied heavily on hitting with RISP. They didn't hit many home runs that year and at best that's what they'll be in 2015. I just don't see a sudden increase in runs coming.

forsberg_us wrote:

alz wrote:

APIAD wrote:

I like this trade. I think the cards had to get a bat. A 15 to 20 hr guy is better then grichick is going to be. It is an improvement. I know they lost 2 good players and I think the braves did well. However the cardinals are going to have to give something to get something. If they believe in their system like they claim then miller will not be hard to replace. As alz said, he seemèd to have another gear he never got to. That is a polite way of saying he is under preforming. Hopefully a reasonable extension can be worked out. If not, oh well. A team has to do something to win now once in awhile. Now they need a right handed power bat to platoon.

Heyward hit 27 homeruns not too long ago. At 25, I have no reason to think his power numbers will decline anytime soon. I'm still holding out hope they did get a 25-30 HR guy myself. 

In his other 4 seasons, Heyward hit 18, 14, 14 and 11 HR.  The 27 HR season was likely an outlier.  I like the trade, but think we need to be reasonable about what we got.  It's a major upgrade defensively, and the team gained some speed.  The interesting question is whether Heyward is more than a platoon guy.  Last season his splits against lefties were terrible (.169/.225/.477).

I like the fact the Cardinals also improved the bullpen.  It was a weakness last season.  Walden is a nice additional piece.

In all of those seasons, Heyward wasn't yet 25 years old. I'm just saying it's too early in his career for us to assume he's playing the best baseball he can.

Edit He also had injuries in 2011 and 2013 that cost him 30 and 50 games respectively. 20 HRs on a full season should be expected, maybe a few more as he continues to grow as a hitter. Not saying he will, he could go Craig mode and never be seen to have another competent AB again. I'm just saying if he hasn't "peaked", I won't be shocked. 
 

Last edited by alz (11/17/2014 2:57 pm)

alz wrote:

What I do wonder though is what Upton would have cost. Seems like he's on the block too.

Which one? Justin probably would have cost more than Heyward. The Braves will probably let you have B.J. if you agree to pick him up at the airport.

alz wrote:

artie_fufkin wrote:

alz wrote:

What I do wonder though is what Upton would have cost. Seems like he's on the block too.

Which one? Justin probably would have cost more than Heyward. The Braves will probably let you have B.J. if you agree to pick him up at the airport.

Justin. No position change to stick him in right field, and it looks like the Mariners are in line to pick him up. 

If they make that move, and unless they get Cano coming back, I'm not sure what John Hart is doing in Atlanta. Seems like he's just making moves to remind everyone how brilliant he was in Cleveland. 
The Braves finished next-to-last in runs scored and allowed the third fewest runs in the NL last year. I'm not sure shipping out your corner outfielders for pitching is going change that equation.

forsberg_us wrote:

alz wrote:

APIAD wrote:

I like this trade. I think the cards had to get a bat. A 15 to 20 hr guy is better then grichick is going to be. It is an improvement. I know they lost 2 good players and I think the braves did well. However the cardinals are going to have to give something to get something. If they believe in their system like they claim then miller will not be hard to replace. As alz said, he seemèd to have another gear he never got to. That is a polite way of saying he is under preforming. Hopefully a reasonable extension can be worked out. If not, oh well. A team has to do something to win now once in awhile. Now they need a right handed power bat to platoon.

Heyward hit 27 homeruns not too long ago. At 25, I have no reason to think his power numbers will decline anytime soon. I'm still holding out hope they did get a 25-30 HR guy myself. 

In his other 4 seasons, Heyward hit 18, 14, 14 and 11 HR.  The 27 HR season was likely an outlier.  I like the trade, but think we need to be reasonable about what we got.  It's a major upgrade defensively, and the team gained some speed.  The interesting question is whether Heyward is more than a platoon guy.  Last season his splits against lefties were terrible (.169/.225/.477).

I like the fact the Cardinals also improved the bullpen.  It was a weakness last season.  Walden is a nice additional piece.

Getting morse to add to the mix would certainly be interesting.   Now the cards have 2 positions that are platoonable.  Also late innings you need a righty on the bench unless u want to see the middle of the order get torn apart by left sspeciaist

alz wrote:

forsberg_us wrote:

alz wrote:

Heyward hit 27 homeruns not too long ago. At 25, I have no reason to think his power numbers will decline anytime soon. I'm still holding out hope they did get a 25-30 HR guy myself. 

In his other 4 seasons, Heyward hit 18, 14, 14 and 11 HR.  The 27 HR season was likely an outlier.  I like the trade, but think we need to be reasonable about what we got.  It's a major upgrade defensively, and the team gained some speed.  The interesting question is whether Heyward is more than a platoon guy.  Last season his splits against lefties were terrible (.169/.225/.477).

I like the fact the Cardinals also improved the bullpen.  It was a weakness last season.  Walden is a nice additional piece.

In all of those seasons, Heyward wasn't yet 25 years old. I'm just saying it's too early in his career for us to assume he's playing the best baseball he can.

Edit He also had injuries in 2011 and 2013 that cost him 30 and 50 games respectively. 20 HRs on a full season should be expected, maybe a few more as he continues to grow as a hitter. Not saying he will, he could go Craig mode and never be seen to have another competent AB again. I'm just saying if he hasn't "peaked", I won't be shocked. 
 

I hope you're right.  As someone who had Heyward in fantasy last season and watched him hit 11 HR in a relatively injury free season, perhaps I'm a tad bitter.