- artie_fufkin
- Administrator
Offline 
- From: God's Little Acre
- Registered: 9/08/2010
- Posts: 22,429
Re: 6/1 GC
forsberg_us wrote:
I don't want to derail this thread, but all I've been reading about on Facebook is how courageous Bruce Jenner is. Can someone explain to me how Bruce Jenner becoming a chick is courageous? And apparently everyone forgot that in the midst of his gender identity crisis, he killed someone in a car accident.Facebook has become a morass of self-absorption and bad manners.
I don't follow any of this nonsense, but I'm wondering why ESPN has an update about his/her transgendering, if that's a word, on its crawl tonight. Jenner won his gold medal almost 40 years ago. His persona isn't associated with sports anymore. His story ought to be on E! or Entertainment Tonight, where I can ignore it.
ESPN already announced that Bruce/Caitlyn will receive the Arthur Ashe Courage Award. Sorry, but that's a slap in the face of the family of the person he killed.
And you wonder how Arthur Ashe would have felt about it.
- tkihshbt
- Scott Rolen
Offline
- Registered: 9/07/2010
- Posts: 7,244
Re: 6/1 GC
I'm cool with anyone finding their own way as long as they aren't hurting anyone else, but it's always been hard for me to wrap my head around gender confusion. This probably makes me a hypocrite since I'm a fierce believer in same-sex marriage and there's a sizable amount of people who can't figure that out, but the transgender thing has always confused me.
I'm also uncomfortable with the idea of "gender reassignment." More often than not, I believe science trumps all and science says Bruce Jenner was born with XY chromosomes. His DNA says he is a male. Mutilating your penis and getting plastic surgery to make yourself look more female doesn't change that. He may feel more female, but he is genetically a male.
Whatever, though, if this is what he wants to do and it's what people want to applaud him for, more power to them. I'm just not going to call a reality TV whore courageous.
- APIAD
- Administrator
Offline
- From: Central IL
- Registered: 9/07/2010
- Posts: 11,096
Re: 6/1 GC
Its marketing genius. Kill someone. How do you turn that media spotlight into something more shocking. Morph ur penis into a vagina.
Either that or he watched so much lesbian porn and thought, damn that looks fun. I admitt....it does look fun.
- artie_fufkin
- Administrator
Offline
- From: God's Little Acre
- Registered: 9/08/2010
- Posts: 22,429
Re: 6/1 GC
"Its marketing genius. Kill someone. How do you turn that media spotlight into something more shocking. Morph ur penis into a vagina."
I hope no one would put that much thought into self-promotion.
My point of view matches TK's. I don't think Bruce/Caitlyn is mentally ill or his gender confusion is a sign that Western civilization is heading down the crapper, like I've read elsewhere, but I think he's far from "courageous."
ESPN has given this award to some pretty courageous people - Pat Tillman, Steve Palermo, Dave Sanders, four of the passengers from Flight 93 who gave their own lives so others were spared. I don't know how Bruce/Caitlyn fits into that dynamic. In fact, if I were he/she, I'd be kind of embarrassed to have my name alongside theirs.
- •
Thread Starter- forsberg_us
- Administrator
Offline
- Registered: 9/08/2010
- Posts: 9,944
Re: 6/1 GC
"Its marketing genius. Kill someone. How do you turn that media spotlight into something more shocking. Morph ur penis into a vagina."
I hope no one would put that much thought into self-promotion.
My point of view matches TK's. I don't think Bruce/Caitlyn is mentally ill or his gender confusion is a sign that Western civilization is heading down the crapper, like I've read elsewhere, but I think he's far from "courageous."
ESPN has given this award to some pretty courageous people - Pat Tillman, Steve Palermo, Dave Sanders, four of the passengers from Flight 93 who gave their own lives so others were spared. I don't know how Bruce/Caitlyn fits into that dynamic. In fact, if I were he/she, I'd be kind of embarrassed to have my name alongside theirs.
I agree, but given that we're talking about a member of the Kardashian group, it's a fair question.
My disdain for Bruce/Caitlyn doesn't stem from the fact he decided to morph from man to woman, and I don't think that decision reflects a sign of the decline of Western civilization. What I take as a greater sign of the decline of Western civilization is the way society responds to this shit. I don't care that Bruce Jenner decided to turn into Caitlyn any more than I care that some bimbo from a "Real Housewives" cast got a fake set of tits or new collegen injections in her lips. I just don't understand why, as a society we care about Paris Hilton, the Kardashians, Honey Boo Boo, the Robertson family from Duck Dynasty or a seemingly endless list of other crap that gets thrown in front of us by television producers. I think the fact there are some people who care more about the most recent episode of the Bachelorette than they care about their children's education and/or diet is a potential sign the apocalypse may be coming sooner rather than later. And the notion that Bruce Jenner is some sort of hero is a joke.
In consecutive years, ESPN has given the Arthur Ashe Award to a gay player who wasn't good enough to make an NFL roster, and a 65 year old former male Olympian who is in the process of becoming a woman. I'm not suggesting that ESPN has a hidden political agenda, but if they don't, they've sure made it pretty easy for someone who wants to try to make the contrary point.
- artie_fufkin
- Administrator
Offline
- From: God's Little Acre
- Registered: 9/08/2010
- Posts: 22,429
Re: 6/1 GC
"In consecutive years, ESPN has given the Arthur Ashe Award to a gay player who wasn't good enough to make an NFL roster, and a 65 year old former male Olympian who is in the process of becoming a woman. I'm not suggesting that ESPN has a hidden political agenda, but if they don't, they've sure made it pretty easy for someone who wants to try to make the contrary point."
I was with you until here. ESPN is owned by Disney, which does't exactly have a track record of promoting a political agenda. They can't even figure out after 75 years a way to get Mickey and Minnie Mouse to live under the same roof or to explain how Donald Duck has nephews for fear they might offend the American Family Association for American Families .
If Disney has an agenda, it's about squeezing as much possible money as they can out of their sponsors, which means getting ratings, which means getting viewers. Which leads me back to your first point, with which I agree. ESPN gives its award for courage to George Weah and people say "Who??" ESPN gives its award to a transgender reality TV star with a daughter who made herself famous by releasing a homemade porno, and people tune in.
Last edited by artie_fufkin (6/02/2015 11:35 am)
- •
Thread Starter- tkihshbt
- Scott Rolen
Offline
- Registered: 9/07/2010
- Posts: 7,244
Re: 6/1 GC
Yeah, I don't think Disney is trying to show itself as some sort of progressive corporation, I think they understand what drives conversation in the social media-driven world.
- APIAD
- Administrator
Offline
- From: Central IL
- Registered: 9/07/2010
- Posts: 11,096
Re: 6/1 GC
I think it is a load of crap that jenner gets in to the fatal accident and all a sudden wants to be female. If it has a glimmer of courageousness he should have done it prior. If he wanted to do it all along why didnt he tuck his wiener and wear makeup before the accident? I will say he wasnt exactly manly before. Maybe he did want to be a women and just used this accident as timing. Maybe it is a mental problem. Do you think if the accident wouldnt have happen he would have decided to be a women? And what the hell does being on the front page of a magzine have to do with it all.
The answer to all of that is money. When money is involved anything is possible. Would any of us not ley a camera follow us around and perform little skits for millions and millions of dollars?
- forsberg_us
- Administrator
Offline
- Registered: 9/08/2010
- Posts: 9,944
Re: 6/1 GC
Yeah, I don't think Disney is trying to show itself as some sort of progressive corporation, I think they understand what drives conversation in the social media-driven world.
No, I agree with you and Artie. My point was if someone wanted to argue that ESPN was trying to promote the LGBT lifestyle, ESPN was giving people plenty of fodder to make the argument.
Go back to the 2014 NFL Draft. ESPN had a camera crew in an LA gay sports bar to show reaction when Michael Sam was drafted. It's exactly what Tk said, sensationalism generates buzz which is good for ratings.
To AP's point, if Jenner wanted to show courage, step up and do the right thing by the dead woman's family. Between his own recent press and whatever he's made from the Kardashian's, he can afford it. I just resent Jenner being made a hero in the same vain I resent people calling Ray Lewis an inspiration.
- forsberg_us
- Administrator
Offline
- Registered: 9/08/2010
- Posts: 9,944
Re: 6/1 GC
Not for nuthin, but Albert Pujols (11) and David Freese (9) have more home runs than anyone on the Cardinals.
After you posted this, Pujols hit 2 more last night.
- APIAD
- Administrator
Offline
- From: Central IL
- Registered: 9/07/2010
- Posts: 11,096
Re: 6/1 GC
Really the freese/salas for borjous/grichuk worked out pretty even. Depending on for grichuk turns out the angles may have got the better end.
- artie_fufkin
- Administrator
Offline
- From: God's Little Acre
- Registered: 9/08/2010
- Posts: 22,429
Re: 6/1 GC
There's a difference between Michael Sam and Jenner, in addition to the motor vehicle incident. Sam is an active player of a professional sport that historically is slower on the uptake with these things. Jenner is hardly the first transgender person, and his motives are much more suspect.
- •
Thread Starter- forsberg_us
- Administrator
Offline
- Registered: 9/08/2010
- Posts: 9,944
Re: 6/1 GC
Not for nuthin, but Albert Pujols (11) and David Freese (9) have more home runs than anyone on the Cardinals.
After you posted this, Pujols hit 2 more last night.
And another last night.
Can we continue to poke fun at Pujols. He's really helping my fantasy team get healthy at the moment.