Oh. Shit.

"Investigators believe Cardinals officials, concerned that Mr. Luhnow had taken their idea and proprietary baseball information to the Astros, examined a master list of passwords used by Mr. Luhnow and the other officials who had joined the Astros when they worked for the Cardinals. The Cardinals officials are believed to have used those passwords to gain access to the Astros’ network, law enforcement officials said."

What did Luhnow use for passwords? "1-2-3-4-5?" "Password?"

Last edited by artie_fufkin (6/16/2015 10:50 am)

artie_fufkin wrote:

"Investigators believe Cardinals officials, concerned that Mr. Luhnow had taken their idea and proprietary baseball information to the Astros, examined a master list of passwords used by Mr. Luhnow and the other officials who had joined the Astros when they worked for the Cardinals. The Cardinals officials are believed to have used those passwords to gain access to the Astros’ network, law enforcement officials said."

What did Luhnow use for passwords? "1-2-3-4-5?" "Password?"

First off, what is "proprietary baseball information?" Are we to believe that Theo didn't take information from his days in Boston with him to the Cubs?  Does Tommy Lee Jones come in a wipe a GM's memory like in Men in Black when these guys jump ship.  We see all the time situations where a former GM will make trades with his old team because of his familiarity with prospects in the organization.  What could Luhnow have taken that the Cardinals needed to be that concerned about?

I have no idea why someone in the Cardinals organization chose to do this, but whoever is involved should be fired immediately and, if found guilty of a crime, thrown in prison.  

I could imagen a scout could make himself look pretty good by stealing another teams draft ideas.  The cardinals have done pretty well in recent deafts.  Im just conspiracy theorying.  I really have no clue but i could see this being bad

The good news is right now every talking head at ESPN is discussing the NBA playoffs (aren't those over yet??), and the Padres just hired Pat Murphy, so the MLBN heads are talking about that.
Wow. If the Cardinals are supposed to be the scoundrels du jour, they've just been exceeded by the Padres. If you hire Pat Murphy, all you care about is winning. It doesn't matter how you do it.

I certainly hope the FBI has more substantial evidence than a footprint at some group home where a bunch of IT geeks who worked for the Cardinals lived, before they started leaking information to the Times. If is another instance of the government's "ready fire aim" mentality still leftover from that whack job Hoover's tenure ...

Best-case scenario is it was done by ex-prospects, no longer involved with the organization, jealous over the cuckolding of themselves or their fathers by Luhnow. Probably a stretch, though.

forsberg_us wrote:

FWIW, it sounds like this goes back to last year when a bunch of emails and other information from the Astros database was leaked to the public.  As I recall, there were a bunch of emails that included trade discussions with other clubs and things like that.  The information was uploaded to some online server where anyone with a computer could see it.

If that's all there is, and if the Astros were the only target, then that fits the narrative that someone had an axe to grind with Luhnow, hacked into the Astros server (which was made easier by the fact Luhnow wasn't bright enough to change passwords) and leaked the information for the purpose of making Luhnow look bad, not to gain a competitive advantage.  That narrative would also fit the idea that it was a lower level employee or employees.  I heard an interview with Strauss, and it sounds like the location from which the Astros database was hacked was a location in or around Jupiter shared by several Cardinals employees during Spring Training.  I doubt Moz has roomies during Spring Training.

Even if all that's true, it doesn't diminish the damage to the team's reputation, and while it might mitigate the league's punishment, I'd still be shocked if the Cardinals don't face a hefty fine and possibly the loss of draft picks.  MLB has to send a message that this sort of behavior, even if only to embarass another club's official, isn't acceptable.

 

This is likely.  I hope the cardinals do get punished because if it was any other team id think they should get something as well.  I hope nothing happend that gace the cardinals an advantage in draft, scouting or playing.  That would help some.  If it is just a shitty employee then it isnt all that bad.

alz wrote:

APIAD wrote:

forsberg_us wrote:

FWIW, it sounds like this goes back to last year when a bunch of emails and other information from the Astros database was leaked to the public.  As I recall, there were a bunch of emails that included trade discussions with other clubs and things like that.  The information was uploaded to some online server where anyone with a computer could see it.

If that's all there is, and if the Astros were the only target, then that fits the narrative that someone had an axe to grind with Luhnow, hacked into the Astros server (which was made easier by the fact Luhnow wasn't bright enough to change passwords) and leaked the information for the purpose of making Luhnow look bad, not to gain a competitive advantage.  That narrative would also fit the idea that it was a lower level employee or employees.  I heard an interview with Strauss, and it sounds like the location from which the Astros database was hacked was a location in or around Jupiter shared by several Cardinals employees during Spring Training.  I doubt Moz has roomies during Spring Training.

Even if all that's true, it doesn't diminish the damage to the team's reputation, and while it might mitigate the league's punishment, I'd still be shocked if the Cardinals don't face a hefty fine and possibly the loss of draft picks.  MLB has to send a message that this sort of behavior, even if only to embarass another club's official, isn't acceptable.

 

This is likely. I hope the cardinals do get punished because if it was any other team id think they should get something as well. I hope nothing happend that gace the cardinals an advantage in draft, scouting or playing. That would help some. If it is just a shitty employee then it isnt all that bad.

I heard a guy on ESPN say that forfeiture of draft picks is not something you're going to see because it's not allowed in the CBA.

Saw this discussed elsewhere.  The CBA really isn't the correct document because it controls the relationship between MLB/teams and the players. The relationship between MLB and the various franchises is controlled by the MLB Constitution and Rules.  Per the MLB Constitution, the Commissioner's disciplinary authority includes: 

Article II, Sec. 3. In the case of conduct by Major League Clubs, owners, officers, employees or players that is deemed by the Commissioner not to be in the best interests of Baseball, punitive action by the Commissioner for each offense may include any one or more of the following:

(a) a reprimand; (b) deprivation of a Major League Club of representation in Major League Meetings; (c) suspension or removal of any owner, officer or employee of a Major League Club; (d) temporary or permanent ineligibility of a player; (e) a fine, not to exceed $2,000,000 in the case of a Major League Club, not to exceed $500,000 in the case of an owner, officer or employee, and in an amount consistent with the then-current Basic Agreement with the Major League Baseball Players Association, in the case of a player; (f) loss of the benefit of any or all of the Major League Rules, including but not limited to the denial or transfer of player selection rights provided by Major League Rules 4 and 5; and (g) such other actions as the Commissioner may deem appropriate.

http://bizofbaseball.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=66:june-update-major-league-baseball-constitution&catid=7:selection-of-docs&Itemid=25

I could see, however, as a concession to the player's association, that rather than a complete forfeiture of the draft pick (which would result in one less player drafted), the pick be forfeited to the Astros.  Since we're likely talking about a first round pick (or several early round picks), so long as the number of picks doesn't change, that probably keeps MLBPA happy. 

 

forsberg_us wrote:

And it was only a matter of time before this sort of nonsense surfaced.

http://www.latimes.com/sports/la-sp-cardinals-hacking-plaschke-20150617-column.html 

I was just about to post this link. This is so irresponsible. 
 

This has the look of something that could drag on and on thru lawyers and courts.  Tracking Corporate internet activity (mixed in with bright IT guys or guys with vendetaa/passwords) over a long period of time should be messy. 

Who what how when why?
how many times?
who told them do to it?


the media has it now.  They want winners (STL) labled guilty like no matter facts. Maybe they can do like GOVT?  find fall guy or wipe out years of history,  stall etc.

forsberg_us wrote:

alz wrote:

APIAD wrote:

 

This is likely. I hope the cardinals do get punished because if it was any other team id think they should get something as well. I hope nothing happend that gace the cardinals an advantage in draft, scouting or playing. That would help some. If it is just a shitty employee then it isnt all that bad.

I heard a guy on ESPN say that forfeiture of draft picks is not something you're going to see because it's not allowed in the CBA.

Saw this discussed elsewhere.  The CBA really isn't the correct document because it controls the relationship between MLB/teams and the players. The relationship between MLB and the various franchises is controlled by the MLB Constitution and Rules.  Per the MLB Constitution, the Commissioner's disciplinary authority includes: 

Article II, Sec. 3. In the case of conduct by Major League Clubs, owners, officers, employees or players that is deemed by the Commissioner not to be in the best interests of Baseball, punitive action by the Commissioner for each offense may include any one or more of the following:

(a) a reprimand; (b) deprivation of a Major League Club of representation in Major League Meetings; (c) suspension or removal of any owner, officer or employee of a Major League Club; (d) temporary or permanent ineligibility of a player; (e) a fine, not to exceed $2,000,000 in the case of a Major League Club, not to exceed $500,000 in the case of an owner, officer or employee, and in an amount consistent with the then-current Basic Agreement with the Major League Baseball Players Association, in the case of a player; (f) loss of the benefit of any or all of the Major League Rules, including but not limited to the denial or transfer of player selection rights provided by Major League Rules 4 and 5; and (g) such other actions as the Commissioner may deem appropriate.

http://bizofbaseball.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=66:june-update-major-league-baseball-constitution&catid=7:selection-of-docs&Itemid=25

I could see, however, as a concession to the player's association, that rather than a complete forfeiture of the draft pick (which would result in one less player drafted), the pick be forfeited to the Astros.  Since we're likely talking about a first round pick (or several early round picks), so long as the number of picks doesn't change, that probably keeps MLBPA happy. 

 

You could be right on the money, I have no idea. Since nothing like this has ever occurred before, it's hard to know what punishment is fair and what isn't going to be allowed.

I didn't detest Passan's article, which at least had the magnitude and possible punishment the Cards are looking at swing heavily based on how high up the ladder this went. 

Memo from your friendly IT poster... If you're going to do something shady, go to another town, find a public computer, and use it. Don't use the computer in a residence. Don't google "How to get away with the crime I'm thinking of committing" before committing the crime either... Those two mistakes seem to account for 90% of the major fuck-ups that people make. Anything you do on the computer leaves a trace that is almost always recoverable somehow.