tkihshbt wrote:

The Post-Dispatch is trying to help the Cardinals sell the narrative that the Cubs got Heyward for less, but the fact is the Cubs offered him a higher annual average and two opt-outs (which the Cardinals likely balked at). I do think part of the reason this dragged on was because Heyward was giving the Cardinals every opportunity to match or exceed the AAV ($23M) or the two opt-outs. Those opt-outs are huge because Heyward is betting on himself to make more money down the road. That was a savvy move by the Cubs. The Cardinals clearly didn't get creative enough with their offer.

Here's the thing: whether or not Heyward and his defense, baserunning and everything else about him that does or doesn't make him a $185M player is irrelevant to the fact that the Cardinals identified him as THEIR GUY and fell very short on actually making that happen. The fucking back patting this organization does when they show their "fiscal discipline" has no place in this discussion (this wasn't directed at any of you, just the Cardinals).

I understand.  I'm just wondering if the Cubs aren't becoming a bit of a "destination" home for players.  The team should be good, and if they happen to win, you get to be a part of history.

I'm just curious (and we'll never know the answer) if the Cardinals had matched, would Heyward have stayed or still chosen Chicago?  It isn't inconceivable that he still might have chosen Chicago.

"Sounds like that was a case where they felt Price should have taken less for the honor of playing here."

My already-rusty recollection was Price woke up and thought he was going to be playing in St. Louis until the Red Sox made him an offer he couldn't refuse.
I still would have preferred Greinke to Price, especially after I found out Greinke chucked Yasiel Puig's luggage in to the middle of the street. Maybe Greinke isn't such a bad guy after all.

http://www.foxsports.com/mlb/story/dodgers-puig-greinke-involved-in-altercations-according-to-new-book-063015

 

It's okay, guys. Goold said this morning the Cardinals are frustrated. They can't believe players aren't taking the second-best bids.

tkihshbt wrote:

The Post-Dispatch is trying to help the Cardinals sell the narrative that the Cubs got Heyward for less, but the fact is the Cubs offered him a higher annual average and two opt-outs (which the Cardinals likely balked at). I do think part of the reason this dragged on was because Heyward was giving the Cardinals every opportunity to match or exceed the AAV ($23M) or the two opt-outs. Those opt-outs are huge because Heyward is betting on himself to make more money down the road. That was a savvy move by the Cubs. The Cardinals clearly didn't get creative enough with their offer.

Here's the thing: whether or not Heyward and his defense, baserunning and everything else about him that does or doesn't make him a $185M player is irrelevant to the fact that the Cardinals identified him as THEIR GUY and fell very short on actually making that happen. The fucking back patting this organization does when they show their "fiscal discipline" has no place in this discussion (this wasn't directed at any of you, just the Cardinals).

 

Say the cubs offer was:
26mill 2016, 26mill 2017, 26mill 2018, opt out option 26mill 2019, opt out option 20.25mill, 20.25mill 2020, 20.25mill 2021, 20.25mill 2022.

Basicly that is a 3 or 4 year contract because heyward will opt out if the market tends up like it always has.  Imo if thats the case, offering that sort of contract is to the clubs advantage.  It is just a 4 year contract....and if he doesnt opt out at least the final years are cheaper.

If thats what heyward wanted I wouldnt have balked at the idea.  It will be interesting to see what it actaully took.

If the cubs did something like that and the cardinals offered a simple 10years/20million a year I wouldnt have taken the cards offer if I was heyward either.

And ... time!!
First mention of the new Cubs' Dynasty:

http://www.foxsports.com/mlb/story/chicago-cubs-jason-heyward-kris-bryant-anthony-rizzo-have-the-makings-of-a-dynasty-121415

Fuck Heyward. Fuck the Cubs.
 

Cueto signing with Giants for six years and $130 million, slightly front-loaded with an opt-out after year two and club option for a year seven.

Last edited by JV (12/14/2015 5:23 pm)

JV wrote:

Cueto signing with Giants for six years and $130 million, slightly front-loaded with an opt-out after year two and club option for a year seven.

 
Good. I already hate the Giants.
I predict right now that option won't be picked up.

It seems just weeks ago I was quoted as saying I didn't feel the hate to the Cubs as I did other rivalry teams. I even felt bad for them. I rooted for them...

Well since whipping our ass on the diamond, they've taken Heyward and Lackey. On a year where our new TV deal was supposed to open up the checkbook a bit and give us a little money to throw around!

Now... All that said, I can't hate them for not getting David Price. I can't hate them for not getting Grienke, although I would have loved that... I can't even hate them for Lackey although 32 million for 2 seasons after him playing for league min like he did seemed MORE than fair.... I have the same reservations about Heyward as a lot of folks here. Without really pinpointing anything, Heyward can win games for you, but it's very very hard to point a finger to where with his offensive numbers being what they are....

The whole offseason together though feels like one collective kick in the junk. I can't specifically rail about any "one" episode, but all of them together make me think I'm going to be nursing hockey season as long as I can....

And I believe I'm finally getting into the spirit of this Cards/Cubs rivalry. 

Fuck Heyward, Fuck Lackey, Fuck Theo, Fuck the Cubs....

So Heyward claims he picked the Cubs because they were younger and he could see himself growing older with their core players, whereas the Cardinals core players were all old.

Honestly, I think the degree of booing Heyward will experience will set a new standard. Brandon Phillips will seem like a fan favorite.

forsberg_us wrote:

So Heyward claims he picked the Cubs because they were younger and he could see himself growing older with their core players, whereas the Cardinals core players were all old.

Honestly, I think the degree of booing Heyward will experience will set a new standard. Brandon Phillips will seem like a fan favorite.

I was listening to either Ron Darling or Billy Ripken on MLBN last night suggesting that Cueto will be popular in San Francisco because of his long hair and funky motion. The Bay Area is also renowned for its acceptance of those in the transgender community.

I'm Just giddy waiting for the Cardinals annual after the all star break moves .....

forsberg_us wrote:

tkihshbt wrote:

I think we need to consider the possibility that Heyward chose the Cubs because he gets paid to be the man, but doesn't have to worry about actually performing like the man. He's a good offensive player, but not a great one, and everything that makes Heyward a great player doesn't show up in stat sheets. On a Cubs team with Rizzo, Bryant and Schwarber potentially hitting 30 home runs, Heyward doesn't have to worry about being an elite offensive talent. If he stayed in St. Louis, he would've been counted on to reach a level he knows he's not really capable of.

I completely agree.  In fact, I think I said a couple of months back that in some ways Heyward was a better fit in Chicago than in St. Louis for exactly that reason.  He's a very good all-around player that's a better fit in a lineup that already has other offensive talent.  St. Louis needs an offensive centerpiece and Heyward isn't that guy.

Of course, it doesn't sound like we're going to sign "that guy" either.

I don't think a rightfielder playing centerfield makes him a good fit. But it's not going to matter. Heyward is going to spend the entire year on the DL after overdosing on the toxic fumes of the goat shit that emanated from his mouth yesterday.
 

Last edited by artie_fufkin (12/16/2015 10:55 am)

artie_fufkin wrote:

forsberg_us wrote:

tkihshbt wrote:

I think we need to consider the possibility that Heyward chose the Cubs because he gets paid to be the man, but doesn't have to worry about actually performing like the man. He's a good offensive player, but not a great one, and everything that makes Heyward a great player doesn't show up in stat sheets. On a Cubs team with Rizzo, Bryant and Schwarber potentially hitting 30 home runs, Heyward doesn't have to worry about being an elite offensive talent. If he stayed in St. Louis, he would've been counted on to reach a level he knows he's not really capable of.

I completely agree.  In fact, I think I said a couple of months back that in some ways Heyward was a better fit in Chicago than in St. Louis for exactly that reason.  He's a very good all-around player that's a better fit in a lineup that already has other offensive talent.  St. Louis needs an offensive centerpiece and Heyward isn't that guy.

Of course, it doesn't sound like we're going to sign "that guy" either.

I don't think a rightfielder playing centerfield makes him a good fit. But it's not going to matter. Heyward is going to spend the entire year on the DL after overdosing on the toxic fumes of the goat shit that emanated from his mouth yesterday.
 

Love the new avatar.