APIAD wrote:

That was fun baseball. I hope it is the start of something.

I thought that after they won 11 of 15 going into the series against Houston. I thought that after they swept the Cubs in Wrigley for the first time in 28 years. I thought that after they swept San Diego. Basically, I'm done hoping this can be the start of something.

artie_fufkin wrote:

tkihshbt wrote:

artie_fufkin wrote:

I know it's tough to take Wainwright out of the game after he's whiffed two guys, but you have to pitch around Cespaedes and let the lefty deal with Loney.

I don't understand. You're saying you would make a move that would put a lefty in against a guy with a .544 OPS against said lefties? Sounds like someone wants to be a LaGenius.

 
Didn't even have to think it through that far. Loney owns Wainwright.

You have a sound baseball mind. Unfortunately, the manager has rocks in his head. How does he watch that inning go down and think Wainwright has a good chance of getting out Cespdes? Worst case with intentionally passing on Cespedes is the Mets pinch-hitting with Johnson or Reyes, but I'm taking my chances with Siegrist vs. one of those two/Loney over Wainwright vs. Cespedes every day. Matheny just doesn't get it.

Last edited by tkihshbt (7/27/2016 9:46 pm)

artie_fufkin wrote:

But after watching Theo give up half his farm system for Chapman, it a buyer's market, and I'm not sure Moz should push all his chips to the center for a shot at a wild card. There's no way in hell I trade Reyes. Unless the Angels are willing to give up that Trout guy.

After seeing what the Marlins gave up for Fernando Rodney and what the Cubs gave up for Montgomery and Chapman, I started to wonder if the Cardinals should just face plant this week and sell off Siegrist and Oh at the deadline Monday. If Mike Montgomery, a pretty good middle reliever, could get a guy like Dan Vogelbach (think Matt Adams with lots of walks and fewer strikeouts), if Chapman could get two Top 100 prospects, if Rodney could fetch a guy that is going Pedro Martinez on the Carolina League...then what could Oh and Siegrist get? 

I don't think we're going to find out, but I think they could get a great return.
 

artie_fufkin wrote:

tkihshbt wrote:

artie_fufkin wrote:

 
Didn't even have to think it through that far. Loney owns Wainwright.

You have a sound baseball mind. Unfortunately, the manager has rocks in his head. How does he watch that inning go down and think Wainwright has a good chance of getting out Cespdes? Worst case with intentionally passing on Cespedes is the Mets pinch-hitting with Johnson or Reyes, but I'm taking my chances with Siegrist vs. one of those two/Loney over Wainwright vs. Cespedes every day. Matheny just doesn't get it.

 
Bbbbbbbbut he's the only manager in the history of the franchise to make the playoffs four years in a row.
Most of his problems are due to stubbornness. He failed to acknowledge his best relief pitcher for three months when everyone else knew who it was after three weeks. He finally moved a .235 hitter out of the third spot in the lineup. He continues to allow his most productive hitter  to bat leadoff because he's afraid of confronting him. The catcher, without whom they've been unable to win in the postseason, is once again being exposed to fatigue and injury due to overuse.

The sad truth is that it really is that simple.

tkihshbt wrote:

artie_fufkin wrote:

But after watching Theo give up half his farm system for Chapman, it a buyer's market, and I'm not sure Moz should push all his chips to the center for a shot at a wild card. There's no way in hell I trade Reyes. Unless the Angels are willing to give up that Trout guy.

After seeing what the Marlins gave up for Fernando Rodney and what the Cubs gave up for Montgomery and Chapman, I started to wonder if the Cardinals should just face plant this week and sell off Siegrist and Oh at the deadline Monday. If Mike Montgomery, a pretty good middle reliever, could get a guy like Dan Vogelbach (think Matt Adams with lots of walks and fewer strikeouts), if Chapman could get two Top 100 prospects, if Rodney could fetch a guy that is going Pedro Martinez on the Carolina League...then what could Oh and Siegrist get? 

I don't think we're going to find out, but I think they could get a great return.
 

I know your theory that bullpen should be bought and sold like penny stocks.  There is some or alot evidence that relief pitchers rarely have consistent year to year performance.  I still cant see blowing up the only two pieces of the bullpen that work in 2016 as a good base for 2017.  The deadline is a few days off.  Maybe some teams lower their price.  Middle relief rentals shouldnt be this high of price.  They wont get a team a comp pick so if the team doesnt sell they are just out.