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11/22/2016 2:56 pm  #51


Re: 2017

So pena was dfa to make room for this signing.  That was a short career in stl.

 

11/26/2016 11:15 am  #52


Re: 2017

One of the many things I don't understand is how the 60 day DL works.

1.  A player on the 60 day doesn't count against the 40 man roster.
2.  A player can stay on the 60 day for more than 60 days.

But, apparently the Cards had to take some guys off the 60 day and count them on the roster.  Why is that?

Is Lyons eligible to go back on the 60 day after just coming off?

 

11/27/2016 8:23 pm  #53


Re: 2017

Mags wrote:

One of the many things I don't understand is how the 60 day DL works.

1.  A player on the 60 day doesn't count against the 40 man roster.
2.  A player can stay on the 60 day for more than 60 days.

But, apparently the Cards had to take some guys off the 60 day and count them on the roster.  Why is that?

Is Lyons eligible to go back on the 60 day after just coming off?

 
Not sure Mags . (Welcome back)
Could it be if they are not put on the 40 , they are dfa?
Scroll down to 60 day ....
http://www.baseballprospectus.com/compensation/cots/transactions-glossary/

 

11/27/2016 9:22 pm  #54


Re: 2017

Thank you for the cite.  As I read the information regarding guys on the 60 day DL, apparently all of them have to come off at the end of the season.  It isn't clear whether Lyons can go back on after the season starts, as far as I can tell.  But I kinda get the idea that he can't.

Also, they can only put a guy on the 40 man roster when all of the slots are filled.  I don't think they are to that point yet.

Thanks for the welcome back, whoever you are.  Fors and TK are of course obvious.  And I didn't have any trouble figuring out who was Bocard.  But it ends there.  I may have known when we first moved to this forum but the ginseng just isn't getting the job done anymore.

One other comment.  I agree with Fors or whoever it was that would put Carpenter up for bidders.  I really liked Carpenter.  But some guy who is slower than me and thinks he should be a lead-off hitter has serious head problems. Especially if he has proven that his base-running judgment is in the lower 10%.

Also, I fear that this year is not the time to pay heavily for established stars.  This team has two position players who could become stars -- Kelly and Diaz -- with emphasis on the "could."  I'm afraid Piscotty has a lower ceiling than I once thought. I may be the only person I know of anywhere who thinks that Diaz could have a couple of good years as an outstanding shortstop if his arm holds up.

I don't think Wainwright has as many good innings left as some do.

 

11/28/2016 8:51 am  #55


Re: 2017

 "I agree with Fors or whoever it was that would put Carpenter up for bidders.  I really liked Carpenter.  But some guy who is slower than me and thinks he should be a lead-off hitter has serious head problems. Especially if he has proven that his base-running judgment is in the lower 10%."

Thank you. 
And it's good to see your handle. Hope you're well.

 

11/28/2016 1:00 pm  #56


Re: 2017

artie_fufkin wrote:

And it's good to see your handle. Hope you're well.

And thanks to you, BC.  I wouldn't have any idea how to come back to this board if it hadn't been for the receipt of a notice that someone had replied to a thread I was following -- last entry in 2010.

Actually, I'm very well.  My high blood pressure, diabetes, cataracts, loss of vision and hearing, and early stage Alzheimer's are something of an inconvenience.  So is the hole in my mouth where I'm getting a dental implant.

{I think the Alzheimer's is early stage but I kept forgetting to ask my doctor.]

Thanks to you choice of my babble to quote, and confirmed that it was your comment on Carpenter that I agreed with so much.  Unlike most (perhaps all) of you here, I'm a big fan Matheny.  But we've got a bunch of guys on this team who really need to play for Dale Sveum or Lou Pinella.  Or preferably Dick Williams if he could be resurrected.  Some of these guys need some serious ass-chewing.

Wong and Carpenter both seem to have seriously unrealistic assessments of themselves.  Especially Wong.  I don't know if Grichuk is stubborn or just plain dumb.  Or possibly lacking in guts, which I can well understand.  Wainwright's constant clowning in the dug gout would be just fine if the team had a 10 game lead on the next contender.  Molina needs to be rested one or two days out every five, no matter what he's trying to prove.

Also, a couple of years ago I picked up some facial gestures from Rosenthal, after a mound visit by Matheny, make me question seriously his attitude. But I may just have misread something.

From what I've seen of young players (and law students), I've begun to rethink some (but not all) of my past criticism of LaRussa.

I'll try to come back someday and say what I like about Matheny.
 

 

11/28/2016 1:39 pm  #57


Re: 2017

Good to see you back mags

 

11/29/2016 3:25 pm  #58


Re: 2017

I keep thinking Wong is going to figure out he's not Robinson Cano, but I'm afraid by the time that happens he'll be playing in an over-30 league in Maui. 
I'm thinking it'll be more of the same from Waino for the remainder of his contract - mostly mediocre or bad outings with the occasional gem when the 2006 team shows up for another reunion. I read today Moz is looking to add a lefty to the rotation. Maybe get a couple and move Wainwright to the bullpen, where he can be a mentor. I know it's a lot of money to pay for Cal Eldred v.2, but I fear sending him out every fifth day - which Matheny will do as long as both of them are wearing the same uniform - is going to lead to disaster.
For whatever reason(s), Rosethal's fragile psyche may be broken beyond repair. To transpose an old joke about the managerial prowess of Don Zimmer: Until I see any evidence otherwise, I'm going to stick to the notion the only thing Matheny knows about pitching is he couldn't hit it.

 

11/29/2016 5:13 pm  #59


Re: 2017

Nice to see you again, Mags.

I just found out Cooney was claimed by the Indians. We might regret that in a year or so.

 

11/29/2016 5:26 pm  #60


Re: 2017

I'm not quite as concerned about Wainwright as you guys.  Part of his problem was poor roster/lineup construction.  The team defense was terrible, which had a much greater effect on pitch-to-contact guys like Wainwright and Leake.  The advanced metrics suggest his ERA should have been about 3/4 of a run less with just average defense

Wainwright isn't an ace, and he probably shouldn't pitch 200 innings ever again, but I still think he can be a pitcher who throws more quality starts than clunkers.

Now, as Artie points out, getting Matheny to accept that Wainwright is no longer an ace, and to pitch/handle him like he would a back of the rotation pitcher is another story.

 

11/29/2016 8:25 pm  #61


Re: 2017

Jon jay to the cubs

 

11/29/2016 8:27 pm  #62


Re: 2017

artie_fufkin wrote:

I keep thinking Wong is going to figure out he's not Robinson Cano, but I'm afraid by the time that happens he'll be playing in an over-30 league in Maui. 
I'm thinking it'll be more of the same from Waino for the remainder of his contract - mostly mediocre or bad outings with the occasional gem when the 2006 team shows up for another reunion. I read today Moz is looking to add a lefty to the rotation. Maybe get a couple and move Wainwright to the bullpen, where he can be a mentor. I know it's a lot of money to pay for Cal Eldred v.2, but I fear sending him out every fifth day - which Matheny will do as long as both of them are wearing the same uniform - is going to lead to disaster.
For whatever reason(s), Rosethal's fragile psyche may be broken beyond repair. To transpose an old joke about the managerial prowess of Don Zimmer: Until I see any evidence otherwise, I'm going to stick to the notion the only thing Matheny knows about pitching is he couldn't hit it.

Hmmmm, mo wanting a lefty for the rotation after picking up garcias option....interesting.

 

11/29/2016 8:52 pm  #63


Re: 2017

To me the whole 2017 season is based on the rotation and the result will dependent on it.  I think you could go into the 2017 season with the current lineup and bullpen and get about what you'd expect.  The rotation is a huge wild card.

Martinez - is the 200 inning ace.  He just is and he has to be for next season to be a success.  Unfortunately i think he is a number 2, not a number 1. 

Wainwright, lynn, leake - all fall into the middle of the rotation type pitcher.  Each one in my opinion have a high upside and low floor.  Waino can still be decent to good.  Lynn is a guy im excited about having back but im not sure how much rust he will have and what kind of inning caps he needs.  There is going to be a few dead arm periods that will kill his baseball card stat lines.  Leake...well he needs to be decent. 

Wacha isnt a starter.  His shoulder wont allow it.  He needs to be bullpen bound.

Garcia is hopefully trade bait/ insurance.  I think we are all turned on him.

Reyes is a future ace.  He might have a break out year, historic year.  Still, will there be an inning cap?  He has alot of lessons to learn still. 

Missing out on price likely cost the cardinals a post season appearance in 2016 and formidable rotation in 2017.  There is just no way to make what they have dominant through any avenue they have for improvement and there is no way they can out hit the cubs.  This is a classic wild card competitive team. 

Improving middle of the infield defense is the greatest thing they can do to improve this team because of the effect on the rotation.

 

11/29/2016 8:55 pm  #64


Re: 2017

Also you cant slug in st louis.  Got to build a team on pitching and defense with this ball park.

 

11/30/2016 12:03 am  #65


Re: 2017

As much as it sucks, the Cardinals can't get too crazy trying to "catch the Cubs."  The Cardinals aren't picking up 18 games, and the Cubs aren't likely to take a huge step backward.

At first I wasn't a fan of the Cecil signing, but in hindsight it makes a lot of sense. The Cardinals need to play a lot of 6 inning games. With Cecil, Siegrist, Rosenthal and Oh, they have a chance to do that.

Martinez is ready to be an ace in today's game. That doesn't mean pitching 7 or 8 innings, it means being really good for 6 inning (sometimes 7) and giving it to the bullpen.

Reyes because of youth, Wainwright because of age and Lynn because of injury will pitch limited innings. Again, a strong bullpen significantly helps.

That leaves Leake, and unfortunately he's not going anywhere.

If they can make the right move (or couple of moves), they can get back to 90 wins and that will get them into the playoffs. From there they'll have to take their best shot.

 

11/30/2016 12:44 am  #66


Re: 2017

JV wrote:

Nice to see you again, Mags.

I just found out Cooney was claimed by the Indians. We might regret that in a year or so.

 
I think you're right. Moz has made a couple of really lousy moves in the past 12 months - specifically letting Fryer go for six innings of Brayan Pena and now not protecting Cooney. And to a lesser extent letting Hazelbaker walk.
And let me guess ... The Cardinals were in the bidding for Cespaedes, but their offer was blown away by the Mets. Now they're supposedly in on Turner. Anyone want to take a stab at how that will play out?

 

11/30/2016 5:48 am  #67


Re: 2017

artie_fufkin wrote:

JV wrote:

Nice to see you again, Mags.

I just found out Cooney was claimed by the Indians. We might regret that in a year or so.

 
I think you're right. Moz has made a couple of really lousy moves in the past 12 months - specifically letting Fryer go for six innings of Brayan Pena and now not protecting Cooney. And to a lesser extent letting Hazelbaker walk.
And let me guess ... The Cardinals were in the bidding for Cespaedes, but their offer was blown away by the Mets. Now they're supposedly in on Turner. Anyone want to take a stab at how that will play out?

I wasnt disappointed thry didnt get cespaedes this off season.  Last year is when they missed the boat.

I have a feeling the new cba is going to make alot of teams look both ways before crossing the street this year.  Im sure it wont get done before the season starts but it has the ability to completely change how money is spent.  There is talk of a payroll tax, changing the QO System and new implications on the draft.

 

11/30/2016 9:07 am  #68


Re: 2017

APIAD wrote:

artie_fufkin wrote:

JV wrote:

Nice to see you again, Mags.

I just found out Cooney was claimed by the Indians. We might regret that in a year or so.

 
I think you're right. Moz has made a couple of really lousy moves in the past 12 months - specifically letting Fryer go for six innings of Brayan Pena and now not protecting Cooney. And to a lesser extent letting Hazelbaker walk.
And let me guess ... The Cardinals were in the bidding for Cespaedes, but their offer was blown away by the Mets. Now they're supposedly in on Turner. Anyone want to take a stab at how that will play out?

I wasnt disappointed thry didnt get cespaedes this off season. Last year is when they missed the boat.

I have a feeling the new cba is going to make alot of teams look both ways before crossing the street this year. Im sure it wont get done before the season starts but it has the ability to completely change how money is spent. There is talk of a payroll tax, changing the QO System and new implications on the draft.

I'm not sure I wanted them to commit $110 million on Cespaedes either. My comment was more about how the Cardinals always seem to finish second in the sweepstakes. Who was the last top-tier free agent they signed away from another team? Jason Isringhausen? And they can't use the mid-sized market excuse. They sell 3 million tickets before Opening Day. 

As to your second comment, I keep thinking the sides can't be so far apart they'd risk another work stoppage. But I've overestimated the collective intelligence and underestimated the greed of the owners and MLBPA in the past, at my own peril.
 

 

11/30/2016 10:24 am  #69


Re: 2017

"Who was the last top-tier free agent they signed away from another team?"

Carlos Beltran qualify?

 

11/30/2016 10:30 am  #70


Re: 2017

forsberg_us wrote:

"Who was the last top-tier free agent they signed away from another team?"

Carlos Beltran qualify?

Naaaah. Beltran wasn't really an elite player by that point. I know he hit for the Cardinals and he continues to hit pretty well, but I wouldn't call a 2-year, $26 million deal a real blockbuster.
 

 

11/30/2016 1:48 pm  #71


Re: 2017

Was Tino Martinez before or after Isringhausen?

 

11/30/2016 1:52 pm  #72


Re: 2017

forsberg_us wrote:

Was Tino Martinez before or after Isringhausen?

I can't recall. I've tried to put the Tino Martinez Era out of my mind.

 

12/01/2016 5:34 am  #73


Re: 2017

As to your second comment, I keep thinking the sides can't be so far apart they'd risk another work stoppage. But I've overestimated the collective intelligence and underestimated the greed of the owners and MLBPA in the past, at my own peril.
 

Announced today was that the all star game will no longer determine home field advantage for world series, records will.

Also announced is that there will be a 10 day DL instead for 15. 

I can see the 10 day DL being used strategically.  With the 15 day DL a starting pitcher had to miss 2 starts and have a delayed 3rd.  With a 10 day dl a pitcher can miss one start and have a delayed 2nd.  I can see it being used as a innings limit tool for young pitchers or ones coming of TJ.  TLR is probably thinking of managing again just to toy with it

Last edited by APIAD (12/01/2016 5:41 am)

 

12/01/2016 10:54 am  #74


Re: 2017

Charlie Finley is licking his chops while stoking coal.

 

12/01/2016 11:26 am  #75


Re: 2017

Looks like it is pretty much final.

 

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