Im really suprised they didnt go after turner and i still hold out hope they are in on somebody else.  As many articles have said, it seems to be to the Cardinals advantage to keep adding free agents.  They already lost their first round pick.  A second round pick is less valuable.  Might as well waste the next draft as opposed to wasting the next two because they realize next offseason that they still need a middle of the order hitter.

Im curious how the attendance will be effected if this is it.  The club has boasted for 2 years their ablity to spend.  Both year it was widely believed that the Cardinals were far behind the cubs.  I personally didnt attend a game in 2016.  Not totally out of spite but i did find the team less interesting.  I likely wont attend a game in 2017 unless they hang with the cubs.  Id assume im not the only fan with a lack of interest.  I will watch the team and am a cardinals consumer by way of fsmw but it is the clubs job to motivate me to drive 2.5hr, spend money on beer, tickets, hotel, and food.  They are not doing that.

forsberg_us wrote:

APIAD wrote:

Im curious how the attendance will be effected if this is it. The club has boasted for 2 years their ablity to spend. Both year it was widely believed that the Cardinals were far behind the cubs. I personally didnt attend a game in 2016. Not totally out of spite but i did find the team less interesting. I likely wont attend a game in 2017 unless they hang with the cubs. Id assume im not the only fan with a lack of interest. I will watch the team and am a cardinals consumer by way of fsmw but it is the clubs job to motivate me to drive 2.5hr, spend money on beer, tickets, hotel, and food. They are not doing that.

It depends on the performance on the field, especially at Busch.  We saw at the end of last season that even with the team chasing a wild card spot fans simply chose to stay home because the team performed terribly at home.  

I applaud them for that.  Every year we heard about this fucking dry powder.  Well if every year you have extra cash flow then where does it go?  Thats redundant btw. 

I guess in their defense, cotts has a new figure posted on there site.  The cards were 8th in payroll last year when figuring in the dead money and minor league deals on the 40man roster.  Thats something but it still feels like the product is lacking.

APIAD wrote:

Im curious if either of the two big sluggers on the market roukd take a dedl similar to the one cespedas took. Admittedly if i was their agent if rather that offer cime from a more hr friendly park.

There's a story on ESPN that looked at why this year's group isn't signing deals, and one of their theories was that once you look past the sexy stats (HR and RBI), the total package just isn't that good.  

"Edwin Encarnacion is the one star hitter left, and he averaged 39 home runs and slugged .544 the past five seasons. Only Chris Davis has more home runs in that span, and only four others have a higher slugging percentage. He has hit nearly as well on the road as at home. Still, he’ll be 34 next year, and his 2016 season, relative to the league, wasn’t quite as dominant as his previous four.The concerns about Encarnacion, however, pale next to the others. 

Mark Trumbo led the majors with 47 home runs. Fifteen years ago, or maybe even 10 years ago, he would have signed a fat deal by now and been heralded as some team’s new cleanup hitter. Front offices are smarter now. They focus less on home runs and power and more on OBP and defense. Trumbo had a .316 OBP. He should play first base but always finds himself on a team that wants to put him in right field. That’s not his fault, and it’s nice that he can play right field, but he doesn’t play it very well.Here’s another way to put Trumbo's offense in context: The past three seasons, he has hit .253/.309/.477. The three-year major league average for first base is .258/.336/.444. He’s basically a league-average hitter at first base. Does that sound like a $75 million ballplayer? Do you want to bet that he can repeat his 2016 season for the next four years?

Mike Napoli is a big name, he ends up on a lot of winning teams, and maybe he deserves some extra credit for intangible leadership skills. Next to his name for 2016, you see 34 home runs and 101 RBIs -- that’s impressive. But he also hit .239/.335/.465. The major league average for a first baseman in 2016 was .259/.338/.453. Napoli is average, he just turned 35, and he was less than average in 2015. Do you want to bet a three-year contract that he can maintain that production?

Jose Bautista? Awesome from 2010 to 2015 and not as awesome last season. His range in right field has diminished. He’s 36. It’s all about projecting value. Here’s another way to put it. Byron Buxton has been viewed as a disappointment. He hit .224 and played just 92 games in 2016. He had a higher WAR than Trumbo, Napoli and Bautista. Defense matters. Baserunning matters."

http://sports-ak.espn.go.com/blog/sweetspot/post/_/id/77095/why-are-free-agents-taking-so-long-to-sign-this-winter

Last edited by forsberg_us (12/22/2016 10:36 am)

With Cespedes off the board, I'm not particularly enamored of any of the remaining free agents in this class. There's very little value. But the reality is the Cardinals have done very little to close the gap with the Cubs. Cecil is an upgrade from Duke, and Fowler makes them better, but I agree with AP. The "dry powder" mantra is long past stale.

Last edited by artie_fufkin (12/22/2016 1:29 pm)

Montero*
Zobrist*
Heyward*
Fowler*
Ross
Lester
Lackey*
Arrieta

**chapman

I believe all those player were obtain via free agency.  * i believe those player were obtianed last offseason.  And if you want to include player obtain outside of the organization you can include chapman.

This offseaon they obtained wade davis and jon jay.

Mags wrote:

Of last year's Cubs team, how many of the position players were obtained by signing as a free agent or by trade when they were past the "prospect" stage?

I can only think of one.  But I may be overlooking others.

Yeah, I'm with AP on this one.  Are you suggesting that the Cardinals should intentionally tank and rebuild through the draft?  Because that's what the Cubs did for a 5 year stretch.

The Cubs had the best pitching in baseball last season by nearly half a run per game.  3/5 of their rotation was acquired via free agency when they were 30 or older.

Encarnacion to the Indians. 3/$60M

APIAD wrote:

Montero*
Zobrist*
Heyward*
Fowler*
Ross
Lester
Lackey*
Arrieta

**chapman

I believe all those player were obtain via free agency. * i believe those player were obtianed last offseason. And if you want to include player obtain outside of the organization you can include chapman.

This offseaon they obtained wade davis and jon jay.

I apparently misspoke.  By saying "position players, I meant to exclude pitchers.  Maybe I have a misunderstanding re the restrictiveness, or lack thereof, of the term.

The one player I was thinking of was Zobrist.  Strange that I should forget about Heywood.  I suppose I was thinking only in terms of major contributors.  And I really like Heywood, but I'm not sure how much he contributed.  Frankly, I would be inclined to pick Ross as the second most valuable non-pitcher acquired by the Cubs through trade or free agent signing.  I am pretty sure the Cubs didn't have to give up a draft pick to sign him.

I may be underrating Montero but I was much more impressed by the young guy that we saw a lot near the end of the season.  Also, upon further review,  I guess Fowler would have to be rated above Ross.  What ever happened to the guys the Cubs gave up for him?  Did they do anything for Houston?
 

Last edited by Mags (12/22/2016 10:25 pm)

I rarely have a point to anything i do.  If there was one it is that the cardinals shying away from the free agent market is a difference maker.  If the cardinals are not going to tank or fire sale their best players like the cubs they will not recieve the loot via draft or trades that the cubs have.  When you pick in the top 5 or 10 for 5 years you should be able to pick up a few all stars.  The cardinals are not setting their team up to do that.  They want to compete every year.  By that thinking, it also doesnt make sense to firesale. So my conclusion is that the only way for the cardinals to close the gap is through free agency.

Im not a huge fan of the sluggers on the market.  Im also not sure of fhe news CBAs effects.  What i do know is that the price for another free agent would only be a second round pick.  They already lost their first.  That to me should factor in.

So it is said Bautista is rumored to be willing to accept a one year deal if it is higher then the qualifying offer.  My question is if it is worth it for the Cardinals to get in the game?

My negotiatable stance is yes and this is my reasoning.

1.  One year 20-23mill plus the lose of a second round draft pick is a cost this club can afford.  I am a subscriber of the idea that there is no such thing as a bad one year contract.

2. I believe he can rebound from a 2016 that was a down year.

3. Even if he doesnt improve his 2016 contributions would still range from 1st-3rd on the team in bb, obp, ops, hrs and rbis.

4.  He has played a dab of first and a little 2nd.  He has alot of time at 3rd.  I dont think becoming a full time first baseman is a crazy idea.

5.  This teams bench would be alot deeper with peralta on it.

6.  If piscoty or grichuk get hurt either Bautista could spot start.

Artie already knows this story, but it's Christmas, so why not share.

A couple of weeks ago, Chad, another friend and I were out having a few drinks and I was talking about Encarnacion. Chad mentioned that he liked Bautista. He thought he would take a shorter contract and because he had come up as a 3rd baseman could easily transition to 1st base. The more we talked about it, the more excited he got until he finally said, "fuck it, why not, let's see if we can make this happen."

Next thing I know he's texting Molina to see if he knows Bautista. Yadi says they're good friends. Chad asks Yadi if he thinks Bautista would be interested in St. Louis and Yadi responds "I'll find out."

About an hour later, Chad gets another text from Yadi, who had been texting Bautista. Bautista told Yadi he'd love a chance to play in St. Louis and another shot at postseason, but St. Louis hadn't shown any interest. After a couple of texts back and forth with Chad, Yadi says, "we need to make this happen, I'm texting Mo."

About 2 hours later (yeah, we were drinking a while), Chad gets a couple of texts from Yadi. They were screen grabs of the texts with Moz. It went something like.

Yadi- Hey Mo, just wanted to let you know I was talking to Jose Bautista and he says he'd love to come to St. Louis. Just thought I'd pass it along.

Moz- Yadi.  Thanks for the information. At this time I don't think it works into our plans, but we'll talk about it internally and keep it in mind should something change.

Long story short, Moz knows Bautista is willing to come to St. Louis, he doesn't care. I suspect you're looking at the 2017 Cardinals.