It wasn't ESPN it was StLToday.  Here's the link:

http://www.stltoday.com/sports/baseball/professional/article_26040284-0028-534b-8069-11493455aebf.html

"Big league baseball contracts are prohibited from including a bonus based on "playing, pitching or batting skill." That keeps teams and players from rewarding for benchmark home runs, hitting .300 or winning 20 games."

Max wrote:

Ah.  I see.  Well that's a just a technicality.  Because I know there are bonuses for things like MVP, etc.  So all you need to is reword that so that it is something along the lines of, a player option is automatically trigged if Pujols winds up in the top 10 in MVP voting.

That you can probably do.  In fact, I'm almost positive that's how Wainwright's options recently vested. 

But why would Pujols accept something like that?  For all of your talk of $200M/7 years lacking splash, it's more guaranteed money than $150M/5 years and a bunch of options.  He could lose the options simply by being hurt without a drop in healthy performance.

10 years is too long, but 7-8 year deals are becoming fairly common for position players.  Anything in the 7 year, $200-210M range is more than enough both in terms of overall money and AAV.

With all of the 7 year contracts floating around, I don't think there's any chance Pujols signs for less than 7 years.

If you go back and read the link I posted about A-Rod, you'll see that the "milestone bonuses" allow the A-Rod contract to reach $300M, so your "splashy number" argument is incorrect.

One other issue you are missing is the pressure from the players' union that I am certain is being put on Pujols and his agent to get the biggest deal as is possible.  They know that pretty much whatever Pujols takes becomes the ceiling for future contracts. 

As far as thinking outside of the box, that requires time.  The A-Rod deal required league approval.  The Cardinals don't have time to dick around with something like that.  They need to step up and make a legitimate offer that brings this deal to a close.

The notion that Pujols would retire at 37 was my friend's idea.  Personally, I don't see Pujols pulling a McGwire/Meche sort of move.  I think Pujols would stay for the money.

So, they could put milestone bonuses into Pujols's contract that drives it higher than A-Rod's.  The deal I am suggesting triggers player option years, not bonuses.  So, a deal that will pay him $300 million if continues to remain effective is different from A-Rod's bonuses. 

Anway, all I am trying to do is think of ways to get this done.  If $200/7 gets it done, great!

But I am getting increasingly pessimistic.  If they had wanted to go that route, then they should have showed him those numbers back in October or November.  Waiting around until nearly February without so much as having put an offer in front of him smacks of desperation.  They seem to be saying, we know we don't have what it takes to get this done, so we are stalling for time, hoping some miracle happens that suddenly drops the bottom out from under these big contracts again.  In fact, stalling just increases the amount they will ultimately have to pay, unless they get the miracle they seem to be praying for.

Nice scarf homo.

Last edited by APRTW (1/24/2011 5:35 pm)

On a more relevant point, this photo illustrates one key difference between Mozeliak and Luhnow.  Mozeliak wears bespoke while photo of Luhnow indicate he is clearly an off the rack guy.

I saw this photo on the StlToday website.  Is it just me or does it look like they super-imposed Moz's head on someone else's body.  It looks too big to fit.

You know how it goes.  Somebody wears a goofy tie and just when people start cracking snide jokes about it, it turns out that the guys daughter gave it to him before she got leukemia, or something.

APRTW wrote:

Max wrote:

You know how it goes.  Somebody wears a goofy tie and just when people start cracking snide jokes about it, it turns out that the guys daughter gave it to him before she got leukemia, or something.

I got a bunch of cheesy "worlds greatest dad" shirts but I wouldnt wear one to a news conference.  I dont even wear them in public.

Not even if your kid gets leukemia and you know you're going to be on TV?

The Pujols contract makes me ill.

In my opinion, every week that ticks by, AP will cost a little bit more. This is a business. You do not play hardball with your top earner in any business, because the more dicey you make the negotiations, the more his price goes up. It was easier to sign AP yesterday then it is today, and it will be harder tomorrow.

Even at 40 million a year. There's more than money in this for Pujols. Part of that is loving the city, the fans, and being home here. The other part is being Albert Pujols and busting your ass every day for a city and playing for under value pay for nearly a decade to have this team reward you with a song and dance and no fucking cash when it comes time to make you a Cardinal for life. Do you have any idea how much that would fucking piss me off? How would you feel? I'd be livid. I'd go out and hit 57 homers, hit .361 with nearly 190 RBI's. I'd win the Triple Crown, the MVP, buy a parking lot across the street, where I displayed these trophies with a note that said, "Peace bitches.", and on the last day of the season, pack up my shit and tell Dewitt I'm not playing for less than 10 years, 500 million for the St. Louis Cardinals. Then I'd sign with the Cubs, just so I could fucking stick it to the Cardinals for as long as possible afterwards.

I cannot pretend to tell Dewitt what to do with 150-300 million dollars, but I feel this could have been done, and they tried to play the market. He could have been had for 125 million, and the Cardinals balked. Well now you'd kill for the ability to make that deal, so now you either take it on the chin and sign him for more money, or you alienate your fans, don't sign him, and I disown you. My ultimatum is set, if this is the Cardinals front office when dealing with a clear legend like Albert Pujols, this is no team I want to support. We'll see if they care about my fanhood.

Last edited by alz (1/25/2011 4:13 pm)

Funny Max, you must not have read the same article I read.  Here's what I saw:

"So conceivably, there's only one area where the Cardinals can possibly dig in -- on the length of the deal. Pujols just turned 31 last week. Is he really going to cash in 10 guaranteed years at historic dollars?

Yeah, it's true that A-Rod got a 10-year contract three years ago from the Yankees, at age 32. But there's no other precedent for a contract that long, even for a player this great, that would continue to pay him massive dollars into his 40s."

"The most widespread guess on where this eventually lands? Eight years times $30 million -- for a total guaranteed payout of $240 million."

forsberg_us wrote:

Funny Max, you must not have read the same article I read.  Here's what I saw:

"So conceivably, there's only one area where the Cardinals can possibly dig in -- on the length of the deal. Pujols just turned 31 last week. Is he really going to cash in 10 guaranteed years at historic dollars?

Yeah, it's true that A-Rod got a 10-year contract three years ago from the Yankees, at age 32. But there's no other precedent for a contract that long, even for a player this great, that would continue to pay him massive dollars into his 40s."

"The most widespread guess on where this eventually lands? Eight years times $30 million -- for a total guaranteed payout of $240 million."

I read all that, and you will recall that my method for luring Pujols was to make him the first $30 million man and then to bump the years down to five, with performance triggered palyer options up to ten years, with the assumption there would be some negotiation over some of the details, including number of guaranteed years.  Your option was to lowball him with an offer that barely inched above A-Rod's AAV, and then lacked the consideration to tack on $4 million more to give Pujols a fat round number for his friends and family to brag about. 

Anyway you slice it, we both want them to resign Pujols.  We both are thinking of ways to get it done.  My thought is that $196/7 had a chance at one point, but those days are gone.  Every day that slips by will make things more expensive for the Cards, and if he becomes a free agent, $300/10 might not get it done.

Right now, I don't think anyone has a clue .