This column on the Redbirds and other farm teams yesterday (7/31/17):

http://www.stltoday.com/sports/columns/jeff-gordon/quick-hits-jeff-gordon-on-the-cardinals/collection_803e2975-8f8b-5aeb-835c-ac93c4f9967b.html

Bader has been added to their roster but didn't play last night.  That means this team is playing without the core of it's line-up for most of the season:  Bader, DeJong, Kelly, and Voit.  (aside from short-timers like Pham and Grichuk).  The Gonzles/O'Neill trade is looking pretty good so far.  He has played CF the past couple of games and gunned down one base runner at 3d last night.

I wonder how much credit Clapp deserves.  Incidentally, last night also has me wondering once again if they shouldn't have tired Flaherty at 3B first.  But not too seriously.

Flaherty was lights out last night.

Tonight, Wisdom and Bader each homered but Weaver got hammered.  And I mean hammered.

Memphis and Springfield each won tonight.  Peoria had another blowout win.

Matt Pearce allowed only 1 earned run over 6 innings for Memphis.  Mercado, Sierra, and Tommy Edman each hit doubles for Springfield.  Dylan Carlson hit 2 for Peoria.

Carlson got off to a very slow start this season but seems to be finding his stroke.  He seems to get on base a lot even when he's not hitting.

artie_fufkin wrote:

I see Diaz has three walks in 98 PAs in Memphis. So much for him being sent down so he could become a more selective hitter.

Pitchers in AAA are known for their control.

Memphis won 3 to 2 in 13 innings tonight.  I think that puts them 38 games over .500.  Dakota Hudson had a strong start.  Piscotty was 1 for 5 with a hone run and 2 strikeouts.

The losing pitcher for Omaha was Seth Maness.  His ERA is 8.01.

Last edited by Mags (8/10/2017 10:51 pm)

forsberg_us wrote:

So the Memphis rotation currently features Weaver, Flaherty, Hudson and who else?

John Gant and Matt Pearce are the other two starters.  They have been using a 6 man rotation with the 6th game being essentially a bullpen start.  But Kevin Herget stretched out for 6 strong innings on Tuesday.

Sprngfield also has some starters who are serious prospects.  Zacvh Gallen has pitched pretty well at Memphis when they needed him.  He's more of a finesse pitcher.  Sandy Alcantara is a flame thrower who has shown real improvement in the past month or so.  Austin Gomber is a big lefty who got off to a slow start but has been very good recently.  I actually expected Gomber to spend most of this year in Memphis but his slow start plus a surplus of starters at Memphis has kept in AA.  Remember they also had Gonzales in Memphis until recently.
 

artie_fufkin wrote:

Which Garcia is the brother of the player on the White Sox? Isn't he supposed to be a decent prospect?

  The one who is playing in Memphis.  Jose Aroldis or something like that.  I usually refer to him by the 2d name (and I'm still not sure how to spell it) because the other one, who is at Springfield, is also a J. Garcia.  I think the one at Springfield would be playing AAA in most organizations.  But the brother is Adonis Garcia and he plays for the Braves.  He recently suffered an injury that will have him out for a couple of months.

Yes.  The one in Memphis is a very serious prospect.  Like several Cubans, he got off to a slow start.  But once he got going, they moved him to Memphis right away and he seems to be getting better and better.

And they have 3 good prospects at Springfield (besides the Garcia).  All are speedsters with not a lot of power.  Oscar Mercado probably has the most power and may be a better outfielder than Sierra.  He is a converted SS with a very strong arm.  Earlier Fors had suggested it was too early to judge Mercado and I think he was right.  But he contines to play well and show some power.  Both he and Sierra have seen their batting averages drop about 40 points in the past couple of months but I don't think that is significant.

The other prospect, Sandy Arozarena, is also Cuban also a speedster without a lot of power.  He also got off to a slow start but has been coming on strong.  He has been a 2d baseman but is almost exclusively an outfielder now.

 

Mags wrote:

I don't think either one of the Garcias currently playing OF for the White Sox is related to either of the Garcias playing in the Cards' system.

One of the White Sox Garcias is from Venezuela and the other is from Puerto Rico.  Both of the Cardinal Garcias are from Cuba and so is the brother with the Braves.

I wonder if it ever occurs to one of the managers to say to a 3d base coach, "I want you to take a message to Garcia"?

Adolis Garcia (the one in the Cardinals system) isn't related to anyone in the White Sox organization.  His brother, Adonis Garcia, plays for the Braves.

Thanks for clearing up the confusion. Didn't the Garcia who plays for the Braves get into some kind of legal entanglement earlier this year?

forsberg_us wrote:

Mags wrote:

forsberg_us wrote:

So the Memphis rotation currently features Weaver, Flaherty, Hudson and who else?

John Gant and Matt Pearce are the other two starters.  They have been using a 6 man rotation with the 6th game being essentially a bullpen start.  But Kevin Herget stretched out for 6 strong innings on Tuesday.

Sprngfield also has some starters who are serious prospects.  Zacvh Gallen has pitched pretty well at Memphis when they needed him.  He's more of a finesse pitcher.  Sandy Alcantara is a flame thrower who has shown real improvement in the past month or so.  Austin Gomber is a big lefty who got off to a slow start but has been very good recently.  I actually expected Gomber to spend most of this year in Memphis but his slow start plus a surplus of starters at Memphis has kept in AA.  Remember they also had Gonzales in Memphis until recently.
 

I saw Gomber pitch this spring and was unimpressed.  He looked like the typical lefty junk-baller.  I remember when they drafted Gallen there was another pitcher drafted either the round before or after (believe he was from Virginia and his name might be Conner), who was considered to be a bit better than Gallen by those who follow the draft.

Alcantara is pretty highly regarded, as is another hard thrower, Junior Fernandez.  If my memory serves, before 2016, Fernandez was considered the better prospect, but Alcantara showed more improvement in 2016 and became more highly regarded.

Connor Jones is the guy you're thinking of from Virginia.  He's fallen a good bit behind Gallen.  Zach Gallen has two first names and Connor Jones has two last names.

It seems to me scouts always underestimate the finesse pitchers.

Yes, Fernandez was ahead of Alcantara.  But Alacantara has clearly moved ahead.  Fernandez has been having a lot of arm trouble this season.

I was initially imprinted with the idea that many lefties were fireballers.  Besides Herb Score, the Cards had Wilmer "Vinegar Bend" Mizell who was probably the hardest throwing pitcher for the Cards, and then later Ray Sadecki.  Also, among the pitchers I saw in Little Rock in the mid-to-late fifties, there were hard throwing lefties George Brunet and Bo Belinsky.  Of course my impression of lefties was reinforced when the Cards had Steve Carlton and a young Jerry Reuss (who actually was a very hard thrower in his Cardinal days).

It's taken me until recently to appreciate that the reverse is probably the norm.
 

forsberg_us wrote:

" Rookie finesse pitcher's don't tend to get calls 3 inches off the black like Tom Glavine used to, so it forces them to throw pitches over the heart of the plate and they get clubbed.".

I have to agree.  I thought that several times when Gonzales was pitching.  Same thing with that lefty the Cards had up a couple of years ago.  He wound up going to Arizona or San Diego, I think.

How do you think Greg Maddux would fare today?  I'm not sure he falls into the same category as Glavine.
 

Last edited by Mags (8/11/2017 2:34 pm)

Mags wrote:

forsberg_us wrote:

" Rookie finesse pitcher's don't tend to get calls 3 inches off the black like Tom Glavine used to, so it forces them to throw pitches over the heart of the plate and they get clubbed.".

I have to agree.  I thought that several times when Gonzales was pitching.  Same thing with that lefty the Cards had up a couple of years ago.  He wound up going to Arizona or San Diego, I think.

How do you think Greg Maddux would fare today?  I'm not sure he falls into the same category as Glavine.
 

If I remember correctly, when Maddux came up with the Cubs he threw somewhat hard--maybe 93-94--for that era. But Maddux is a great example of a guy who would likely have difficulty with a smaller (i.e. normal sized) strike zone.

I've long believed that one of the reasons the Braves had so much post-season problems was that Glavine and Maddux were forced to pitch to more-normal strike zones in the post season because the umpires were generally better and all the games were televised nationally and thus subject to greater scrutiny. Smoltz (who had the best "stuff" of the 3) had much greater post-season success.