I wouldnt blame the pitcher but the team.  He has a buyout for 2019 so he is pocketing a cool 3 mill.  Id take that money in this market 100x over if i was oh.

Im going to pass on the pro cardinals articles that say that this isnt a big deal because

1. Arrieta is gone
2. Lester will regress
3. Cubs are playing into their window and the cardinals never have a window thats closed. 

Like darvish or not...with him the cardinals have a top 5 rotation in the nl.  Without him they are mid pack at best.

Pessimistic as i may be i do...the reasons have been well stated this offseason by many but:

1. Waino is done-o.  He is a less than 200 inning pitcher.  Likely less then 170 inning pitcher.  I believe his high era and curveball dependency will continue.

2. Martinez is never going to put together a top of the rotation type of season.  I will say i believe last years lack of wins and increase in era is more due to poor defense and bullpen than his slip in performance.  Still, i dont think ill ever trust martinez.  Not in big games. 

3.  Weaver i see as a potential staff leader.  Just his demeanor on the mound says so.  However, he will struggle at times this year in his first full season as teams get a better handle on him and see him multiple times.  How he adjusts will be key of course.  I am excited about him.

4.  The guy from japan..i dont even want to talk about him.  It is like hearing advertising for Cement-head all over again.

5. Wacha, he is another 170 inning pitcher at best.  Who knows what you get there.  2017 was a decent year for him but it was still middle of the rotation.

6.  They will need reyes in the bullpen to stabilize it.

7. Flaherty hasnt shown anything at a major league level yet.  Not as a starter or out of the pen.  Might be a great prospect but that is it at this point.  In his debut year i wouldnt expect him to be a game changer.

My prediction is that martinez is the only pitcher to flirt with 15 wins.  He is the only pitcher to throw close to 200 innings and not more then 2 pitchers from the roation throw more then 170 innings.

APIAD wrote:

Pessimistic as i may be i do...the reasons have been well stated this offseason by many but:

1. Waino is done-o. He is a less than 200 inning pitcher. Likely less then 170 inning pitcher. I believe his high era and curveball dependency will continue.

2. Martinez is never going to put together a top of the rotation type of season. I will say i believe last years lack of wins and increase in era is more due to poor defense and bullpen than his slip in performance. Still, i dont think ill ever trust martinez. Not in big games.

3. Weaver i see as a potential staff leader. Just his demeanor on the mound says so. However, he will struggle at times this year in his first full season as teams get a better handle on him and see him multiple times. How he adjusts will be key of course. I am excited about him.

4. The guy from japan..i dont even want to talk about him. It is like hearing advertising for Cement-head all over again.

5. Wacha, he is another 170 inning pitcher at best. Who knows what you get there. 2017 was a decent year for him but it was still middle of the rotation.

6. They will need reyes in the bullpen to stabilize it.

7. Flaherty hasnt shown anything at a major league level yet. Not as a starter or out of the pen. Might be a great prospect but that is it at this point. In his debut year i wouldnt expect him to be a game changer.

My prediction is that martinez is the only pitcher to flirt with 15 wins. He is the only pitcher to throw close to 200 innings and not more then 2 pitchers from the roation throw more then 170 innings.

I don't see anything here to disagree with.  And I concur with your prediction of a short season for Wacha.
 

Last edited by Mags (2/11/2018 9:49 pm)

APIAD wrote:

Im going to pass on the pro cardinals articles that say that this isnt a big deal because

1. Arrieta is gone
2. Lester will regress
3. Cubs are playing into their window and the cardinals never have a window thats closed.

Like darvish or not...with him the cardinals have a top 5 rotation in the nl. Without him they are mid pack at best.

Yeah, count me out of the crowd that thinks Epstein has pulled off another genius move here. Darvish enhances their rotation now, but didn't the Cubs get into trouble in the previous decade by overpaying aging veterans?
 

artie_fufkin wrote:

APIAD wrote:

Im going to pass on the pro cardinals articles that say that this isnt a big deal because

1. Arrieta is gone
2. Lester will regress
3. Cubs are playing into their window and the cardinals never have a window thats closed.

Like darvish or not...with him the cardinals have a top 5 rotation in the nl. Without him they are mid pack at best.

Yeah, count me out of the crowd that thinks Epstein has pulled off another genius move here. Darvish enhances their rotation now, but didn't the Cubs get into trouble in the previous decade by overpaying aging veterans?
 

Im with fors on this one.  You are not going to sign a top tier free agent without overpaying on the back end or offering opt out clauses that means the FA cashes in elsewhere.  The cards are overpaying for the front end productivity of wainwrights contract now.  Matt holiday was a bargin but not worth it his last 2 years.  Price of doing business.  Im not saying i wanted darvish altho his contract is fair.  I do expect more improvement from the front office.  And if they are scared of overpaying on the back end they will never sign anyone.

APIAD wrote:

forsberg_us wrote:

artie_fufkin wrote:

Yeah, count me out of the crowd that thinks Epstein has pulled off another genius move here. Darvish enhances their rotation now, but didn't the Cubs get into trouble in the previous decade by overpaying aging veterans?
 

He's only 31 now.  By the time Darvish is in his decline, $21M will be the cost of acquiring Mike Leake.

On the bright side, it appears the Cardinals are going to respond by signing Bud Norris.

https://twitter.com/Ken_Rosenthal/status/963073539074150405 

He wont cause any long term finacial or prospect road blocks.

Nope, and to your point about opt-outs, Darvish also has an opt out after year 2.  

forsberg_us wrote:

APIAD wrote:

forsberg_us wrote:

He's only 31 now.  By the time Darvish is in his decline, $21M will be the cost of acquiring Mike Leake.

On the bright side, it appears the Cardinals are going to respond by signing Bud Norris.

https://twitter.com/Ken_Rosenthal/status/963073539074150405 

He wont cause any long term finacial or prospect road blocks.

Nope, and to your point about opt-outs, Darvish also has an opt out after year 2.  

Yep, want to debate on the cubs' preference on him exercising that option?

APIAD wrote:

forsberg_us wrote:

APIAD wrote:

He wont cause any long term finacial or prospect road blocks.

Nope, and to your point about opt-outs, Darvish also has an opt out after year 2.  

Yep, want to debate on the cubs' preference on him exercising that option?

Only if you want to debate the likelihood of Heyward exercising his opt out.  

forsberg_us wrote:

artie_fufkin wrote:

APIAD wrote:

Im going to pass on the pro cardinals articles that say that this isnt a big deal because

1. Arrieta is gone
2. Lester will regress
3. Cubs are playing into their window and the cardinals never have a window thats closed.

Like darvish or not...with him the cardinals have a top 5 rotation in the nl. Without him they are mid pack at best.

Yeah, count me out of the crowd that thinks Epstein has pulled off another genius move here. Darvish enhances their rotation now, but didn't the Cubs get into trouble in the previous decade by overpaying aging veterans?
 

He's only 31 now.  By the time Darvish is in his decline, $21M will be the cost of acquiring Mike Leake.

On the bright side, it appears the Cardinals are going to respond by signing Bud Norris.

https://twitter.com/Ken_Rosenthal/status/963073539074150405 

Take that, Theo!
 

Cubs beat writer on local St. Louis radio said Cubs are definitely more concerned with the Brewers than Cardinals.

Also, Matheny told reporters today that Fowler will lead off and Carpenter will hit 3rd. I’ll take April 18 as the date that ends.

forsberg_us wrote:

Cubs beat writer on local St. Louis radio said Cubs are definitely more concerned with the Brewers than Cardinals.

Also, Matheny told reporters today that Fowler will lead off and Carpenter will hit 3rd. I’ll take April 18 as the date that ends.

 
Well, when the team they cover wins one World Series every century or so, the beat writers are bound to acquire some confidence.

"Honestly, the only thing worst then no baseball is ST baseball."

Haven't been watching the figure skating in the Olympics, have you?