I like this deal. If they can sign him for multiple years, I'll love it.

Great trade.  They basically gave up spare parts whos trade vaule are  at thier lowest.

I feel like the dbacks could of done much better.  If you asked me who of the cardinals top 15 prospects id give up id of picked those two.

Ive already read that Goldschmidt coupled with signing harper makes the cardinals top contenders in the nl.  I think the idea that the cardinals are in on harper is ridiculous.

I look for the cardinals to address their bullpen, particularly the left side and that will be the extent of their offseason. 

Weaver and kelly may have success playing regularity as we have seen from others but i still feel like this was a steal. 

It also makes the cards very right handed.  I suspect fowler will get every chance to win rf.

Looks like Young can hit a little bit. Not bad for a 37th round pick.

http://www.milb.com/player/index.jsp?player_id=670370#/career/R/hitting/2018/ALL
 

forsberg_us wrote:

artie_fufkin wrote:

The only thing that gives me pause is what happens with Carpenter. I guess you move him to third, but I'm not sure how long that can last because his defense is so poor.
But if acquiring Goldschmidt also means there's a subsequent move to off-load Carpenter, I'm sending a Christmas card to Moz.

Not happening.  There was quite a bit of discussion last night that, despite what our eyes can plainly tell us, Carpenter is an above-average defensive 3rd baseman because his FZLGBTUZI rating (or something like that) was above-average.

On the plus side, it will be nice to have a first baseman who can actually catch a thrown ball.

Then that pretty much ends Gyorko's time with the Cardinals. Munoz is a better (and, more importantly to them, cheaper) option in the utility infielder's spot.
Maybe they can keep Gyorko on call and activate him when the Cardinals play the Padres. His batting average against them is probably around .714.
 

artie_fufkin wrote:

All I keep hearing is the Hallelujah Chorus in my head.

I have a very different reaction.  Right now, I can't think of a non-Cardinal player that I like better than Goldschmidt.  But I don't see his acquisition making this team a winner.  It seems to me just another case of giving the fans just enough to let them keep thinking they are hot shit.

Still, I'm happy about the trade.  First, I'm glad to see Goldschmidt playing for the Cards.  2d, I'm really happy for Kelly and Young, and happy to see Weaver out of the mix of pitchers.  I also hope the trade works well for him.
The only negative I see to it is the loss of the compensation pick.
 

Ahem ... 

9/02/2018 1:34 pm #2

Re: 9/2 GCThis is the last game Kip Weaver will ever start for the St. Louis Cardinals.

Last edited by artie_fufkin (12/06/2018 2:13 pm)

forsberg_us wrote:

If they do nothing else, I agree with you.  But they're a better team today than they were at this time yesterday.  Now they need to fix the bullpen
 

I agree they need to "fix the bullpen" to be competitive.  I am, however, skeptical about whether that can be done except by luck.  Of course they make a real effort or they can make a half-assed effort.  But I don't hold out much hope for success either way.  I can think of two instances where they have been successful -- Bruce Sutter and Jason Isringhausen.  In the latter case, I never felt that good about Izzy, despite his stats.  It helps when you have a good defense and enough offense to provide some breathing room.  With very few exceptions, the really good bullpen guys don't seem to have much shelf life.  And I fear it is only going to get worse with the way the pens are being used almost everywhere.

The big bats are another story.  Since I first started following the Cards in the early 50's, it seems like the Cards have been making trades to acquire the right-handed slugger that they needed.  In the fifties, it was Del Ennis and Gino Cimoli.  In the 60's it was Orlando Cepeda.  In the late 70's, it was George Hendrix, followed by Jack Clark and then Bob Hoerner and then Pedro Guerrero.  More recently, Matt Holliday and  that switch hitter who limped around in RF (Alzheimer's at work on me).  Cepeda and Clark were obvious successes.  The last two are debatable.  Right now, it looks like Goldschmidt may be the best of the lot.  Maybe by the time he departs, we'll have another Albert Pujols who gets drafted somewhere around #400, though I don't think it goes that far anymore.
 

Mags wrote:

forsberg_us wrote:

If they do nothing else, I agree with you.  But they're a better team today than they were at this time yesterday.  Now they need to fix the bullpen
 

I agree they need to "fix the bullpen" to be competitive.  I am, however, skeptical about whether that can be done except by luck.  Of course they make a real effort or they can make a half-assed effort.  But I don't hold out much hope for success either way.  I can think of two instances where they have been successful -- Bruce Sutter and Jason Isringhausen.  In the latter case, I never felt that good about Izzy, despite his stats.  It helps when you have a good defense and enough offense to provide some breathing room.  With very few exceptions, the really good bullpen guys don't seem to have much shelf life.  And I fear it is only going to get worse with the way the pens are being used almost everywhere.

The big bats are another story.  Since I first started following the Cards in the early 50's, it seems like the Cards have been making trades to acquire the right-handed slugger that they needed.  In the fifties, it was Del Ennis and Gino Cimoli.  In the 60's it was Orlando Cepeda.  In the late 70's, it was George Hendrix, followed by Jack Clark and then Bob Hoerner and then Pedro Guerrero.  More recently, Matt Holliday and  that switch hitter who limped around in RF (Alzheimer's at work on me).  Cepeda and Clark were obvious successes.  The last two are debatable.  Right now, it looks like Goldschmidt may be the best of the lot.  Maybe by the time he departs, we'll have another Albert Pujols who gets drafted somewhere around #400, though I don't think it goes that far anymore.
 

I'm not sure exactly how you define the term success, but Matt Holliday and Carlos Beltran outperformed Clark and Cepeda during their respective Cardinals careers.  

If building a bullpen is just luck then the Cardinals should just continue to do what they've been doing because after 3 years of close to the worst bullpen in baseball they should be due.  Guess they're just really unlucky.

artie_fufkin wrote:

The only thing that gives me pause is what happens with Carpenter. I guess you move him to third, but I'm not sure how long that can last because his defense is so poor.
But if acquiring Goldschmidt also means there's a subsequent move to off-load Carpenter, I'm sending a Christmas card to Moz.

Carp moving to third isnt a defensive plus.  However ss to first is above average......first and second are at the top of the league in defense.

It seems exceptional rare that relievers put a sting of 3 above average years together.  There always seems to be a clunker thrown in there.