Nice to hear the whole story.  Ryan is a douchebag.

"do your fucking job and it won't matter." 

I like that a guy hitting .200 is telling a pitcher of Carps level to do his fucking job.

Last edited by APRTW (12/23/2010 2:11 pm)

forsberg_us wrote:

artie_fufkin wrote:

"he (Carpenter) was lucky that he (Ryan) didn't kick his ass right then and there."

Do the Cardinals play Seattle again this year?

No, they get the AL East, but miss both Boston and New York in order to play 6 against the Royals.  Toronto comes to StL and we go to Baltimore and Tampa.

Good scheduling. The only better option would have been playing the NFC West.

forsberg_us wrote:

Felt I should share this story since we all saw the Carpenter/Ryan incident in Cincinnati.

Before the game started, Ryan went to take extra swings in the indoor batting cage.  Seems innocent enough, except that he hadn't changed into his game uniform yet.  When the Cardinals went down quickly in the top of the first, someone yelled to Ryan that the team was about to take the field.  Ryan had to first run to the clubhouse and change from his red warmup jersey to his game jersey.  That's why he was late taking the field.  When he took the field, Ryan accidentally grabbed Miles' glove, which caused him to have to go back and get the right glove.

Now all this is going on under Carpenter's glare, but also with the ESPN cameras rolling.  Per Chad, Ryan digs himself and tries to be extra special for nationally televised games.  Ryan finally gets to his position and Carpenter yells at him, "are you going to tie your fucking shoes now."  Apparently in his haste to get changed, get on the field, switch gloves, etc..., Ryan had neither tied his shoes nor even fastened the velcro.  Rather than tie his shoes and look like a bigger douche on national TV, Ryan yells back at Carpenter, "do your fucking job and it won't matter."  Ryan then proceeded to play the entire half of the inning of what was a fairly important game with his shoes untied.

When they got back to the dugout, Carpenter confronted Ryan (as we all saw) and told him that if he (Ryan) ever put his image ahead of the team again, he (Carpenter) was going to "personally kick his ass."  After the dressing down from Carpenter, Ryan came into the clubhouse (which is where Chad usually watches the game), took a seat, told Chad the story and finished with the statement to the effect that he (Carpenter) was lucky that he (Ryan) didn't kick his ass right then and there.  To which Chad responded, "yeah, good luck with that."  Ryan then stormed out of the clubhouse and sulked the rest of the game.

Good story.  Ryan is listed as 6-2 195, and that looks very generous.  I would have guessed 5-10 160.  Carp is listed as 6-6, 230. 

I remember when Corey Patterson was on his way to being the next HOF centerfielder from Wrigleyville, and when his offensive numbers took a little tumble there was scuttlebutt that he was being encouraged to shorten his swing, to which he responded, "I'm not changing my swing for anybody."

It's a tough call, because anybody at that level owes their success to both inner drive and skillful coaching.  The evidence is that most people don't know when they have strayed into water that is over their head / promoted into a position for which they are not qualified.  So I can easily imagine that a fair percentage of MLB flameouts end with a guy not listening to coaches and veterans who are trying to help him perform with consistency at a talent level that is below where he sees his own personal ceiling.

Last edited by Max (12/23/2010 9:04 pm)

Max, you and I are agreeing on too much stuff lately. Say something absurd plz.

tkihshbt wrote:

Max, you and I are agreeing on too much stuff lately. Say something absurd plz.

Reagan was the Great Communicator.

A nice piece by Hummel on Ryan.

I think that he framed the issue appropriately: yes Ryan has some real issues that can niggle, but everyone's perceptions are very different when A) the team is winning, and/or B) the player in question is playing at or above expectations.

http://www.stltoday.com/sports/baseball/professional/article_d5255a36-2dd0-551f-ae8f-5182e9ada916.html

APRTW wrote:

I think Ryan is a pain in the ass as a teammate but I think the 2010 Cardinals and TLR used him as a scapegoat.  Ryan is far from being the only reason 2010 was unwatchable.  TLR has got his hand picked team.  Lets see what he can do with it.  Not having Wainwright is bad but the pitching staff isnt complete crap.  The offense will have its chance to carry the team.

I think it's like Kennedy said, some people enjoyed his energy.  Others didn't.  Y'all can guess that I am full of energy and opinions at a workshop, and I have had a very, very big wig come up and say that my energy and enthusiasm is great to have around.  But for some of the others, not so much.

Max wrote:

APRTW wrote:

I think Ryan is a pain in the ass as a teammate but I think the 2010 Cardinals and TLR used him as a scapegoat.  Ryan is far from being the only reason 2010 was unwatchable.  TLR has got his hand picked team.  Lets see what he can do with it.  Not having Wainwright is bad but the pitching staff isnt complete crap.  The offense will have its chance to carry the team.

I think it's like Kennedy said, some people enjoyed his energy.  Others didn't.  Y'all can guess that I am full of energy and opinions at a workshop, and I have had a very, very big wig come up and say that my energy and enthusiasm is great to have around.  But for some of the others, not so much.

It's fine if you're doing your job.

When Ryan is hitting .290, he's quirky.  When he's hitting .190, he's being a dick.

APRTW wrote:

forsberg_us wrote:

Max wrote:

I think it's like Kennedy said, some people enjoyed his energy.  Others didn't.  Y'all can guess that I am full of energy and opinions at a workshop, and I have had a very, very big wig come up and say that my energy and enthusiasm is great to have around.  But for some of the others, not so much.

It's fine if you're doing your job.

When Ryan is hitting .290, he's quirky.  When he's hitting .190, he's being a dick.

Kennedy also said that.  This is a story I expected to hear coming from 2 bitter exCardinals who never lived up to there expectations.  Ryan excuse for showing up late is that he is not a morning person.  I mean come on.  Wake up, the rest of the world has to go to work every morning and I am sure he wasnt expected to be at the ballpark at 6am.

I wouldn't disagree with that, but I recall Reggie Jackson was considered a quirky guy, too.  So several factors really do operate: how well the player is doing and how well the team is doing loom large.  Then there comes the "what can I do to change myself" factor.  Guys who do that, first and foremost, are probably often considered to be the guys who "play the game the right way".  But even there, both Albert Pujols and Aaron Miles play the game the right way, so the other two factors still operate.

My hunch is that if the team had made the playoffs, and Ryan had not had an off year at the late, he'd still be a Cardinal.

Last edited by Max (2/26/2011 12:53 pm)

Ryan is batting .138 with 29 at bats this spring.

Last edited by APRTW (3/18/2011 1:10 pm)