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12/06/2012 5:56 pm  #151


Re: New 2013 Cards Hot Stove

"The Cardinals would like to get a major-league player in return for Schumaker, especially if it's one who could satisfy their need for a righthanded bat on the bench."

Ask them for Matt Kemp. What the hell?

 

12/06/2012 6:21 pm  #152


Re: New 2013 Cards Hot Stove

Out of the three, Kelly, Rosenthal and Miller I would put Miller in the Memphis rotation.  He seemed the least refined.  Plus with Carp and Garcia in the rotation he needs to stay conditioned to be a starter.  I cant see the Cardinals rotation not needing a 6th starter alot in 2013.

 

12/06/2012 7:01 pm  #153


Re: New 2013 Cards Hot Stove

My question to everyone suggesting Rosenthal has to make the team is when does he pitch. An argument could have been made for non-tendering Mujica and his $3M salary, but they didn't do that. I like the kid as much as anyone, but don't see the point of having him for those occasions the starter can't get through the 6th. Seems like a waste to me. They believe he's a starter, let h go to Memphis and start.

Assuming health, the rotation is Carp, Wainwright, Garcia, Weatbrook and Lynn. Motte, Boggs, Mujica, Salas, Scrabble and Choate are 6 of the 7 relievers. Personally, I think Kelly's future is in the bullpen, so I give him the 7th bullpen spot and send Miller and Rosenthal to get innings.

     Thread Starter
 

12/06/2012 8:55 pm  #154


Re: New 2013 Cards Hot Stove

A trade could change everything.  Maybe that is what is needed.  Kelly and Rosenthal would be likely targets.  I rather Kelly go then Rosenthal.  More so then either of those options Id like to see Salas and Mujica moved to make room for the younger guys.

 

12/07/2012 8:06 pm  #155


Re: New 2013 Cards Hot Stove

forsberg_us wrote:

Max wrote:

forsberg_us wrote:


Yeah. This reminds me of when the Cardinals have Edmonds that foolish 2 year deal after 2006. They're paying him for what he did in the World Series and playoffs. Dumb.

Not so sure I agree, but it ain't my money.

Not sure you agree that it was good they passed on Scutaro or that it was dumb to sign Edmonds after 2006?

Not sure I agree it was dumb to give Edmonds his gold watch.  Why the fuck would any company ever spend anything on an employee's retirement, unless it was a good idea.  The only thing we need to wrap our minds around is the size of the dollars involved: gold watch, millions of dollars . . . what's the difference?

 

12/07/2012 8:18 pm  #156


Re: New 2013 Cards Hot Stove

artie_fufkin wrote:

tkihshbt wrote:

Kelly is dreadful against lefties. He's simply not going to cut it in the rotation if they are lighting him up for a .318 average.

He's a 24-year-old kid with 100 major league innings who started the 2011 season in High A, TK. I'd like to think the best part of his career is ahead of him.

Here, here.  I remember back in 2004 when Mags was singing the praises of Danny Haren, whose 2003-2004 MLB stats were not particularly impressive:

        ERA    WHIP    BAA
2003 5.08    1.46    .293   
2004 4.50    1.35    .265

 

12/07/2012 8:19 pm  #157


Re: New 2013 Cards Hot Stove

The Cardinals held a team option for 2007. Edmonds' performance and health were already in decline by 2006. Extending him thru 2008 made no sense.

In the end, it worked out. If they had simply picked up his option, they couldn't have traded Edmonds after 2007. But giving him the second year wasn't the brightest move Jocketty ever made.

     Thread Starter
 

12/07/2012 8:21 pm  #158


Re: New 2013 Cards Hot Stove

Max wrote:

artie_fufkin wrote:

tkihshbt wrote:

Kelly is dreadful against lefties. He's simply not going to cut it in the rotation if they are lighting him up for a .318 average.

He's a 24-year-old kid with 100 major league innings who started the 2011 season in High A, TK. I'd like to think the best part of his career is ahead of him.

Here, here.  I remember back in 2004 when Mags was singing the praises of Danny Haren, whose 2003-2004 MLB stats were not particularly impressive:

        ERA    WHIP    BAA
2003 5.08    1.46    .293   
2004 4.50    1.35    .265

Sometimes you have to give prospects a chance to flourish.

Sincerely,

Anthony Reyes

     Thread Starter
 

12/07/2012 8:21 pm  #159


Re: New 2013 Cards Hot Stove

artie_fufkin wrote:

"The Cardinals would like to get a major-league player in return for Schumaker, especially if it's one who could satisfy their need for a righthanded bat on the bench."

Ask them for Matt Kemp. What the hell?

Sorry, but for some reason that reminded me of one of the most wickedly funny trade rumors in the history of our chats.  Way back when, there was rumor of a trade (with the Mets?): Cards send player x and get Player y.  The problem being that the trade was unbalanced in favor of the other team, thus the Cards were encouraged to throw in Brett Tomko to make it more even . . . for themselves!

 

12/07/2012 8:23 pm  #160


Re: New 2013 Cards Hot Stove

forsberg_us wrote:

The Cardinals held a team option for 2007. Edmonds' performance and health were already in decline by 2006. Extending him thru 2008 made no sense.

In the end, it worked out. If they had simply picked up his option, they couldn't have traded Edmonds after 2007. But giving him the second year wasn't the brightest move Jocketty ever made.

Not sure I agree.  :-)

 

12/07/2012 8:25 pm  #161


Re: New 2013 Cards Hot Stove

forsberg_us wrote:

Max wrote:

artie_fufkin wrote:


He's a 24-year-old kid with 100 major league innings who started the 2011 season in High A, TK. I'd like to think the best part of his career is ahead of him.

Here, here.  I remember back in 2004 when Mags was singing the praises of Danny Haren, whose 2003-2004 MLB stats were not particularly impressive:

        ERA    WHIP    BAA
2003 5.08    1.46    .293   
2004 4.50    1.35    .265

Sometimes you have to give prospects a chance to flourish.

Sincerely,

Anthony Reyes, Adam Kennedy, Coco Crisp, Chris Perez, etc.

 

12/07/2012 8:53 pm  #162


Re: New 2013 Cards Hot Stove

Extending Edmonds was such a good idea that the Cardinals shipped him off for a mid level prospect.

 

12/14/2012 9:02 am  #163


Re: New 2013 Cards Hot Stove

Cardinals sign Ty Wigginton for 2/$5 million. Wigginton is not good against lefties and he can't play the outfield, so I have no idea what this is supposed to accomplish.

 

12/14/2012 9:36 am  #164


Re: New 2013 Cards Hot Stove

tkihshbt wrote:

Cardinals sign Ty Wigginton for 2/$5 million. Wigginton is not good against lefties and he can't play the outfield, so I have no idea what this is supposed to accomplish.

I disagreed with your opinion of Wigginton untill I checked his fielding stats.  He looks positionless.  I guess he is a power bat off the bench.  Maybe calling him a power bat is a reach but he does have some pop.  Looks like if he gets 500AB he will hit 15-20 HRs.  He has played every position on the field but done so somewhat poorly.  IDK if they see him as an option for second base.  It doesnt look like he can play thirdbase.  The Cardinals have Craig and Carpenter to play first.  So after checking I am like you.  I dont get it.  His bat does fit there needs tho.  I assume they have a plan.

 

12/14/2012 9:45 am  #165


Re: New 2013 Cards Hot Stove

Well, he's got some pop and I guess best case is that you hope for Eduardo Perez Redux, but...meh.

 

12/14/2012 10:26 am  #166


Re: New 2013 Cards Hot Stove

I have to imagine they view Wiggington as at least an option at 2B, although the Goold write up seems to depict him as a RH corner infield, corner outfield option. 

I agree Tk, his recent split against LH pitching aren't good, but for his career, he hits lefties better than righties.

He isn't AAAron Miles, Ryan Theriot or Shane Robinson, so at least he's got that going for him.

     Thread Starter
 

12/14/2012 11:15 am  #167


Re: New 2013 Cards Hot Stove

forsberg_us wrote:

I have to imagine they view Wiggington as at least an option at 2B, although the Goold write up seems to depict him as a RH corner infield, corner outfield option. 

I agree Tk, his recent split against LH pitching aren't good, but for his career, he hits lefties better than righties.

He isn't AAAron Miles, Ryan Theriot or Shane Robinson, so at least he's got that going for him.

I have a hard time understanding zone rating and all that put his fielding% seems low at every postions.  If he could field second base he would be the best option.  I dont see Beltran being as good as he was last year.  Having a bat like Wigginton's in the lineup might help off set Beltran's decline.  Basicly he took Skip's roster spot.  He will be more usefull on this team then Skip would have.

 

12/14/2012 11:20 am  #168


Re: New 2013 Cards Hot Stove

APIAD wrote:

Basicly he took Skip's roster spot.  He will be more usefull on this team then Skip would have.

That's pretty much how I looked at it.

     Thread Starter
 

12/14/2012 11:29 am  #169


Re: New 2013 Cards Hot Stove

"The Cardinals sought a power presence from the right side for the bench, and they hoped that it would come with some seasoning. The position wasn't important, general manager John Mozeliak said earlier this season, but Wigginton's ability to play the corner positions and spell starters David Freese and Allen Craig is a plus"

I think that is an odd statement.  Are they saying that Wigginton is going to be treated like Matt Stairs?

 

12/14/2012 12:29 pm  #170


Re: New 2013 Cards Hot Stove

Wigginton cannot pinch-hit. At all. The numbers are pretty brutal.

 

12/14/2012 10:13 pm  #171


Re: New 2013 Cards Hot Stove

tkihshbt wrote:

Well, he's got some pop and I guess best case is that you hope for Eduardo Perez Redux, but...meh.

He's surprisingly inexpensive for a guy who was an All-Star in 2010, and we don't have to piss and moan anymore about Shano being the first right-handed option off the bench, but your "meh" sums it up for me, too.

 

12/15/2012 1:15 pm  #172


Re: New 2013 Cards Hot Stove

tkihshbt wrote:

Cardinals sign Ty Wigginton for 2/$5 million. Wigginton is not good against lefties and he can't play the outfield, so I have no idea what this is supposed to accomplish.

and he's the guy who clocked Molina on a vicious collision at home, no?

 

12/15/2012 1:59 pm  #173


Re: New 2013 Cards Hot Stove

Max wrote:

tkihshbt wrote:

Cardinals sign Ty Wigginton for 2/$5 million. Wigginton is not good against lefties and he can't play the outfield, so I have no idea what this is supposed to accomplish.

and he's the guy who clocked Molina on a vicious collision at home, no?

Several years ago, yes

http://stlouis.cardinals.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20050913&content_id=1208440&vkey=news_stl&fext=.jsp&c_id=stl

Last edited by forsberg_us (12/15/2012 3:48 pm)

     Thread Starter
 

12/15/2012 7:53 pm  #174


Re: New 2013 Cards Hot Stove

forsberg_us wrote:

Max wrote:

tkihshbt wrote:

Cardinals sign Ty Wigginton for 2/$5 million. Wigginton is not good against lefties and he can't play the outfield, so I have no idea what this is supposed to accomplish.

and he's the guy who clocked Molina on a vicious collision at home, no?

Several years ago, yes

http://stlouis.cardinals.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20050913&content_id=1208440&vkey=news_stl&fext=.jsp&c_id=stl

"The same two players collided at home plate in a game last year, with the same result."

OK, so he clocked Molina twice.  Frankly I am surprised they would even consider Wigginton, as I recall a lot of negative sentiment about him among Cardinal Nation, similar to what is felt for Janey Cueto and her high heels.

 

12/16/2012 7:27 pm  #175


Re: New 2013 Cards Hot Stove

Max wrote:

forsberg_us wrote:

Max wrote:


and he's the guy who clocked Molina on a vicious collision at home, no?

Several years ago, yes

http://stlouis.cardinals.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20050913&content_id=1208440&vkey=news_stl&fext=.jsp&c_id=stl

"The same two players collided at home plate in a game last year, with the same result."

OK, so he clocked Molina twice.  Frankly I am surprised they would even consider Wigginton, as I recall a lot of negative sentiment about him among Cardinal Nation, similar to what is felt for Janey Cueto and her high heels.

I recall some animosity toward Wigginton as well, but there's a huge difference between crashing a catcher and kicking a guy in the head. There's a huge difference between just about anything and kicking a guy in the head.

 

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