This seemed to be a popular thing to joke about a few years ago when we got the No. 1 ranking, but it's really bad PR for St. Louis and kind of undeserved. I can't read the article, but I'm guessing North County and Metro East really juke the stats. South County isn't exactly a hot bed of violence, and the biggest crime in West County is probably letting your grass exceed whatever asinine limit your gated neighborhood sets it at.

tkihshbt wrote:

This seemed to be a popular thing to joke about a few years ago when we got the No. 1 ranking, but it's really bad PR for St. Louis and kind of undeserved. I can't read the article, but I'm guessing North County and Metro East really juke the stats. South County isn't exactly a hot bed of violence, and the biggest crime in West County is probably letting your grass exceed whatever asinine limit your gated neighborhood sets it at.

I didn't read the article either, but I saw something about this on last night's news and it was explained as the number of "violent crimes" (not sure what does/doesn't qualify) per thousand residents.  Neither the Metro East or the County were considered.  I think that's where the Mayor's office takes exception.  Their position is that the overall numbers of these offenses are down, but the population has dwindled at a greater rate, so the ration has increased, thus pushing St. Louis back to the top of the list.  If the Meotrpolitan area was taken into consideration, the ratio would be significantly lower.

Max wrote:

forsberg_us wrote:

Their position is that the overall numbers of these offenses are down, but the population has dwindled at a greater rate, so the ration has increased, thus pushing St. Louis back to the top of the list.  If the Meotrpolitan area was taken into consideration, the ratio would be significantly lower.

I didn't know of truly gated communities in the Chicago or Los Angeles areas, and first encountered them in St. Louis, where they are numerous.  Nobody wants to live in a dangerous neighborhood, or send their kids to bad schools, so most people either move to a suburb (different tax base) or a private, often gated, neighborhood, with home owners fees for private guards, and send their kids to private schools, and then ask 'what the hell are my tax dollars doing for me?'  Either way, it leaves an economically challenged rump population with all the commensurate problems of urban poor.  And, of course, the last ones to move away are the criminals.

I don't recall any half-assed security in my buddy's development, which is about 30 miles west of Chicago, but it was definitely a walled city.

artie_fufkin wrote:

Is the "gated neighborhood" a Midwestern phenomenon? I wasn't really familiar with the concept until we visited some friends in the Chicago suburbs last month. My buddy got a "warning" for putting his son's basketball hoop too close to the sidewalk.
No fences, either.

I was making a stereotype of rich people, but I'm sure there's a few neighborhoods in West County that seal their borders.

I would love to be the person in your friend's neighborhood that sits on the planning and zoning committee. I bet there's some really interesting conversations about variances and easements.

I believe in zoning to some degree.  It isnt fair to let people devalue your property by moving in a couple trailers on the lot next to you but that is about as far as I think it should go.

APRTW wrote:

I believe in zoning to some degree.  It isnt fair to let people devalue your property by moving in a couple trailers on the lot next to you but that is about as far as I think it should go.

Harumph!  Spoken like a Federalist.  I believe in State's Rights, county's rights, and neighborhood rights when it comes to zoning.  One of those gated communities about 30 m W of Chicago, of which Artie spoke, is Ginger Creek, and they used to have clause within their homeowner's covenant that no homeowner could own a car more than 2 years old.  Don't like the homeowner's covenant?  Don't buy there!  The only issue I would have is that major changes to the homeowners covenant should require a large supermajority.  I wouldn't want to be a in a situation where I bought a house, and then a simple majority changed the rules: requiring that I paint my house mauve, or plant bamboo in my front yard, or whatever.

forsberg_us wrote:

I think you're confusing zoning commissions with neighborhood homeowners associations.

moi?

not intentionally.  ap's comment about trailers on the lot sounded more like homeowners association issues than zoning.

when it comes to zoning, i like to respond to the extreme 'property rights' contingent (it's my property and i can do what i want with it) with the example of a pig farm.  section 8 housing is another biggie.  i had a family member lose everything in his home in houston after the city opened a public housing project a few blocks away.  the home literally had more debt than equity and his life's savings was wiped out.

"One of those gated communities about 30 m W of Chicago, of which Artie spoke, is Ginger Creek, and they used to have clause within their homeowner's covenant that no homeowner could own a car more than 2 years old."

Seems a little Draconian. Does the HA offer its own financing?

artie_fufkin wrote:

"One of those gated communities about 30 m W of Chicago, of which Artie spoke, is Ginger Creek, and they used to have clause within their homeowner's covenant that no homeowner could own a car more than 2 years old."

Seems a little Draconian. Does the HA offer its own financing?

The people there don't need it.  I suspect they pay cash for their cars.  And in that way, I guess I am like them, as I paid cash for my '97 Geo Metro.

forsberg_us wrote:

Our next meeting promises to be interesting.  We're going to be considering a temporary moratorium on certain businesses, including, among others, adult-oriented businesses, payday loan shops and smoke shops.  As it was presented, there is concern that these businesses bring with them "secondary adverse effects." 

At 42, I'm about 15-20 years junior any other member of the commission.  I'm imagining this thing turning into a scene from Reefer Madness as I listen to my colleagues explain how we have to protect the citizens from the evils of porn, greed and the devil weed.

You could do what my hometown did. Create an adult-oriented business zoning district on about 30 square feet of land between the municipal landfill and a swamp that can only be accessed via a road in the town next door.
That little shenanigan probably wasn't what the founding fathers had in mind when they drew up the Bill of Rights, but then again T.J., George and the rest of the powdered-wiggers likely weren't thinking about the impact of Ginger Lynn dancing three shows a night and five on the weekends with an all-you-can-eat buffet at the Leather and Lace Tavern in proximity to a day care center.

I've waited way too long to check out this thread and therefore have read less than 50% of what's written.  I actually thought about posting a link to this ranking with a comment about Memphis being #10.  It also made #10 on a list of toughest cities in which to find a job.

Anyway, the poll that is the subject of this thread can't be accurate with Memphis falling to the no. 10 spot.

On the subject of gated communities, I don't know how far South you're willing to extend the Midwest but they are plenty common in middle and west Tennessee.  And they are only slightly related to higher income.  For a very brief period that was much longer than I would have liked, my daughter lived in an apartment complex when she was a retail sales clerk at Best Buy and it was gated.  Of course there were a lot of well-to-do drug dealers in the complex but a majority of the folks there were probably their biggest customers.  Still, it's hard to know how to compute what would be a majority.  Several of the two person apartments had a regular rotation of 10-12 Hispanics.

Come to think of it, maybe it was gated to keep drug buyers from making a fast get away without paying.

Seriously, it would be unthinkable to have an assisted living place in Memphis that wasn't gated.  Within a week you'd have 3 or 4 (maybe more) gang members storming in to clean out as many of the inhabitants as they could in 20 minutes of B & E) with a couple of assistants walking around and pistol whipping any of the employees who looked like they might pick up a telephone.

tkihshbt wrote:

When did Memphis become south central L.A. anyway?

I'm not sure.  Are you talking about the portrait as a whole or some specific feature?